Automatic Water Changes

[Tony]

That poll thread about changing water that started up in the fall has gotten me thinking about water changes in my fish room.

At first, when I was setting it up, several folks here suggested I build in an automatic waterchanging system. Of course, in my haste to get a few tanks set up, then a few more, then a few more..., I didn't listen.

I do 50% water changes in all my cichlid tanks every 7-10 days. The fish room has fry and breeders in it, so it is closer to the 7 day range. I use a python and it typically takes me 2-3 hours to do about 20 tanks.

Anyway, I'm tired of doing this. Every time I finish up doing the W/C for the last month or so, I curse, then throw whatever money I have in my pocket into a jar. It is the "auto-water-changer" fund.

After I get the 150 setup, this will be my next project:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_auto_water_changes.php


Anyone have any suggestions to improve upon the design from the article? I've seen solid PVC overflows at Matt Quinn and Mike Barber's houses, but like this design because of the clear tubing. This lets you see if you have a buildup of air and are about to lose syphon. Am I being overly paranoid?

Everything seems sound ... including the syphon system. This is my biggest reliability concern as I do not have my tanks drilled and don't want to tear them down to drill them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dogofwar]

For a single tank, I'd set up 2-3 PVC siphons for redundancy...

You can look Down the siphon to see if it's still filled with water...actually watch the water overflow down the drain as water enters..,

Matt

 

[dogofwar]

Another way is to create a central drain with PVC that will accomodate a few siphons

I can drain 5 or so tanks at a time with siphon hoses... This requires refilling manually (for me with a garden hose with PVC that allows me to hang it on a tank.

With enough hot water I can clean about 40 tanks in around 2 hours

Matt

 

[danger_chicken]

I built low flow pvc overflows inspired by a thread Li put up on MFK.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19920
I added a check valve and hooked the check value to an aqualifter to ensure the syphon. Cheap insurance, you can get them for $10 from Big Alls Online. Mine would lose syphon all the time before I added the aqualifters.

The airline on top is what goes to the aqualifter. It doesn't need to be a check valve, you can use an airline fitting.

Don't use a sponge to cover the intake unless you are diligent about cleaning them. I bought little strainers from that fish place (after a flood or 3). I don't have any recent pic's and I'm at work.

For filling I run a main water line around the room and used garden drip system tubing to run the water to the tank. I used drip emitters at first but they seemed to clog easy so I changed to adjustable's. I also ran a main drain line that all the overflows link to. Run them along the floor board and paint them the same color as the trim and you don't even notice them.

For 2 years I had a water changer on my 220 that would drain and fill. I installed a mixing valve to keep the temp consistant. I used that water line on the drip system too. It may not be necessary for a drip but since it was there I used it. Using y- adapters I was able to connect to the washing machine hookup without breaking into the plumbing.

Here's the link to the auto changer. It's over the top but that's was I was going for and I didn't know about drips at the time. Last month I built a new filter for that tank and put it on the drip.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152445

The best thing about this type of project is there are a thousand ways to do it. Reseach as many systems as you can and grab the bits you like from each one to make a system that works best for you. If you need any help let me know.

 

[danger_chicken]

By the way I didn't have to deal with chloramines so there is no filtering in my system.

 

[Tony]

Thanks a bunch, Matt and Mike. I checked out Li's original thread as well as your thread, Mike. Mike, you are definitely hardcore. There's a lot of hardware going on there. Is everything still up and running?

For draining water out of the tanks, I think the "flexible tube feeding into PVC" overflow design seems like it will work pretty well for my application. Like Matt mentioned, I like the idea of having multiple tanks draining to a single pipe. That way, I could hopefully get away with installing 9 or so pipes that all of the tanks feed into.

I also have an IV-style dosing pump that I was using back in the day to dose 2-part calcium to my reef tank. I figure I could use this to dose dechlor into the resevoir.

How much non-treated, chlorinated tap water can be added to a tank in an hour without bad things happening? 10% over 60 minutes (once per day)? I have sponges in every tank pushing lots of air through the water.

It'd be cool if I could setup my system to run without a reservoir, using municipal water pressure to push the water through the drippers.

 

[danger_chicken]

That system ran for 2 years. I took it down last month when I built a new filter. I added that tank to the drip system the other tanks were on. If I understand you and Matt I'm doing the same thing with a single main drain line for all tanks. I tired the flex tube into the pvc and didn't like the way it looked so I built the u-tubes. I have low chlorine levels so I don't worry about it, just aireate it on the way in, but I don't know about your water. You wont need to drip much, for my large tanks I only drip .5-1g an hour. For the 20g's maybe .25g an hour; that still amounts to nearly 100% every 3 days. For my drip system I had to install pressure regulators, municple pressure was too much and causing the garden manifolds I was using to leak. I remember something about 25psi being the max you should have on a drip system. But it all depends on how you build it.

 

[Spine]

There were some good links on this thread Looks like I'm going to have a auto system system running pretty soon.

 

[mrkillie]

You should try to get ahold of Rick Borstein in Chicago. He has a neat system that is anchored by a valve that he can set the amount of water that he wants to change on it, say 200 gallons, then walk away as the water shuts off automatically. I need to look into that myself.

 

[mrkillie]

BTW, Rick has a program on that system. Hmmm.

 

[Tony]

BTW, Rick has a program on that system. Hmmm.

Hmmmm indeed.

 

[Tony]

For the Feed, here's what I've come up with so far (inspired largely from that CF post):

-Tee off C/W supply for washing machine
-Cutoff valve
-PVC over to fish room through drop ceiling (20')
-Undercounter water purifier w/carbon - Home Depot 3/4" threaded input/output (to remove chlorine)
-Solenoid hooked to digital timer (1 hr/day): http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=50

-Pressure regulator (to drop to 25 psi): http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=224

-PVC closed-loop manifold (to equalize pressure) with PVC reducer Tees and brass adapters

-Fixed button (or adjustable for very small tanks) drip emitters: http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=38_61&products_id=356

Two questions that I need to further research:

-Will the under-counter water purifier handle chlorine/chloramine?
-Can I jury-rig the solenoid above (with a cut extension cord) to run with a standard digital programmable timer or do I need to use their controller (http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=34_45&products_id=85)

They have cheaper battery-powered options for one-piece solenoid/controllers, but I want one that will run on A/C. That way if power goes out (to my sump pump), I'm not filling with no one home to empty the sump. Make sense?

 

[danger_chicken]

I looked into those solenoids at frist and most run on 24v, so you'll need a special controller.

This is the type of valve I use, I've tried several types like you posted and they always clogged. I don't know what kind of luck others have had with them. I do use the button emitters outside for landscaping and haven't had any problems.
http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=65

Because of the low rate of drips you don't need to put them on timers or use solenoids. I thought about it at first but it was easier to let it drip constant. The irrigation valves usally say don't use indoors. That was enough to scare me into using a brass valve, but they run about $90; however, you can get ones that run on 120v (I have an extra one)
½” ASCO Series 8210 120v

If you drain into your sump make sure you know where your sump drains. I found out my pumps to the street right in front of my house. It would have covered a ten foot section of the street in ice. Because of that I had to stop using the sump and break into the house drain. The benefit to that is less wear and tear on the sump pump, no electric use and no worries about draining if the power goes out.

I've heard of several people using the homedepot filters and they swear by them. Do a search on MFK and you'll find a few threads on it. I'd search MFK for drip systems and water changers as well; MFK seems to have more DIYer's than CF.

 

[danger_chicken]

Check this one out too
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303090
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298789

 

[danger_chicken]

and another http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201899
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250880&highlight=drip+system

 

[Tony]

Bump.

Anyone else been thinking of doing something like this lately? Changing water is a drag......

 

[dogofwar]

I am for the fish room re-build...

For simplicity's sake, I'm going to make mine "on demand" (i.e. I need to be around to turn the water on to change the water in all of my tanks) vs. automatic (i.e. a sprinkler timer turns on the water automatically). Call me paranoid but there are a million ways for overflows to get plugged and flood the basement...

I have a big roll of the 1/2" black sprinkler tubing...so I'm likely to go that approach...and use drip emmitters like these ( http://www.sprinkler.com/drip-irrig...ters/rain-bird-xb-10pc-1-gph-xeri-bug-emitter ) that plug into it.

The sprinkler tubing is kinda awkward / tends to kink. I was wondering if anyone has experience with using drip emmitters with other kinds of tubing.

I'm planning to use PVC overflows to a main drain...

Matt

 

[rich_one]

I don't even know how much of this I can wrap my head around, but I do know two things:

1. This is awesome.

2. Danger_Chicken is brilliant. Scary brilliant. Either that, or I'm an idiot. Could be both.

Wow.

-Rich

 

[hurtmypony]

I don't even know how much of this I can wrap my head around, but I do know two things:

1. This is awesome.

2. Danger_Chicken is brilliant. Scary brilliant. Either that, or I'm an idiot. Could be both.

Wow.

-Rich

Indeed he is brilliant. And I was surprised at the initially rude welcome he got on his thread on MFK. For a place that typically celebrates such ingenuity and DIY prowess, they certainly didn't show it in his thread. Heck, they even attacked him for his font color!

 

[Reel Addiction]

Yeah Mike is the man on auto water changing. You cant even tell when looking at the tanks. Then you go back into CONTROL CENTRAL and its like WOW!!!! The big filter is awesome. When you leave his house your thinking How can I do thet on my tanks.