Sick Jack Dempsey - Need Help with Treatment

[dankdabe]

All,

My beautiful old Jack Dempsey Jabrobro has fallen ill and need some guidance from the community. I purchased him and his mate Eloise from Chad "Hawkman2000" 4.5 years ago and confirmed from Chad recently that they were both around/at least 3 years old when I got them, so they're getting up there. Anyways, about Jabrobro:

Ailing Jabrobro

He's been acting odd for the past 2 weeks or so, and I've copied the above video link that will do my description justice. He's been laying on his side down by the substrate or on top of live plants, swimming a little labored, kind of wobbly and ending up kind of sideways while swimming. In the past couple of days he's definitely gotten a little bit worse: ending up sideways and generally it looks like he's having some difficulty swimming upright, and seems to show some kind of bend to his body. Some positives are that he is rather alert, has been eating pretty normally, has decent color, and will show some courtship behavior with Eloise (e.d. gill flaring, circling around, etc.).

I did a 40% wc last night and added 5 teaspoons of epsom salt (all I was willing to put in) which I recall doing for sick tanks back when I worked in a pet store in Austin a decade ago and it always seemed to help. I havent upped the heat, though we used to do that as well. They're sitting at 80-81 degrees right now. Also, the tank lights will remain off to de-stress.

Anyways, I need some guidance here. It certainly doesn't look great, but I'm hoping he's treatable. He doesn't appear physically bloated, but that's the only concrete disease that seems to kind of match his behavior. I unfortunately have to travel for the weekend tomorrow night and wont be back til Monday night. I will likely do another small wc tonight (10-20%) and add some more salt, which will be the last aid I can administer. I can direct my roommate to act if need be in my absence.

I'm definitely a little distressed over this and could certainly use any ideas from all of you who have been so helpful in the past. Any ideas what's ailing him, and more specifically, how to treat, would be greatly appreciated. I can make a run to petco to grab any suggested medicine if you all think I need to go that route. I also have some melafix but don't really think that can help in this scenario.

Thanks for your help and here's to hoping Jabrobro recovers!

David

https://youtu.be/2tWtFAtx0CU

 

[jonclark96]

While 7+ years old is getting up there with cichlids, I wouldn't expect old age as the main culprit. From the video, he looks pretty skinny. Noticed any stringy poop? That could be a sign of internal parasites which may be treatable with medicated foods (Angelsplus has the only stuff that I've had success with fish actually eating).

Sorry I can't be more help. I hope he pulls through.

 

[dankdabe]

Thanks, Jon. I certainly have noticed he's gotten skinny, but haven't noticed stringy poops. I've figured he's ok since he's been eating well, but didn't think about a parasite. I'll look into options for medicated food I can pick up tonight.

Thanks,

David

 

[dankdabe]

Im completely unfamiliar with medicines on the market, but am reading that a medicine with Metronidazole could help for an internal parasite (Tetra has ParasiteGuard, API - General Cure). Any others I should look out for? I live in DC and would need to be able to snag something available at Petco. Otherwise, I'll have to order and have my roommate administer while Im gone this weekend.

Still welcoming all guidance and input based on my original note, thanks!

David

 

[Tangcollector]

I have had success with metronidazole on internal parasites but it is not a particularly strong medicine. It works better if you mix it with the food but I have had success just adding it to the water also. I know people that have had success with clout but it is a stronger medicine and can stain the silicone and anything plastic in the tank. A lot of the stuff I have is kind of delicate so I have not used clout on them.

 

[McGrubble]

A lot of the stuff I have is kind of delicate so I have not used clout on them.

I'm a good friend of Dankdabe's and watching Jabrobro is partly what got me into the hobby. Want to make sure he has a full recovery and that every measure needed is taken.

Would an aging JD fall into the category of "delicate"? If so, I guess a Parasite Guard would do the trick, but if not, maybe clout could be considered a "next step".

 

[Hawkman2000]

Very sad to hear this. That pair literaly flooded the local market with their offspring. Well over 500 healthy juvies within 8 months.

I dont know if messing with the ph is a good idea. I would meep it between 6.8 to 7.2.

Dosing with regular aquarium salt should help. Someone else here should be able to give you more info on that. Just remember to bring up the salt level slowly. Not all at once.

Medicated food sound like a good way to go. If you can get him to eat, so dosing the whole tank might be a good start.

Also sounds like a hospitol/quarantine tank might be in order. With a smaller tank you can concentrate the medication better. Of course if it is parasites or other contaigious illness, it could already be spreading through the rest of the tank.

Good luck man. Hope he gets better.

 

[dankdabe]

Good to heard from you Chad. He's a strong beast, hope he can pull through. Parasite Guard should be in my mailbox when I get home. I plan on dosing the tank tonight and may try soaking some of his NLS pellets in the powder. I've also read a bunch about trying to feed them a green pea to help move things through the digestive tract. He's been eating still, so hopefully between that and the medication, he'll start to get better. I unfortunately dont have a quarantine tank, so I'm having to dose the tank. I've already put epsom salt in the tank which will hopefully help him out also.

I'm still not quite sure what's ailing him, but based on my research it seems to be swim bladder related which can be caused by a number of things including internal parasites. He's laying on his side on a piece of driftwood but will excitedly right himself and swim up to the top of the tank when i tap on the lid to get his attention (like I do for feeding time). He's also still interacting with his lady and swirling about. Any other guidance from CCA folks is still greatly appreciated.

Order of events thus far:

Tuesday night - 40% wc; 2 tablespoons epsom salt
Wednesday night - 20% wc; 3 tablespoons epsom salt
Tonight - planning to dose with parasite guard and feed frozen peas if possible.

Thanks,

David

 

[Hawkman2000]

I would use regular freshwater aquarium salt.

I had success with epsom salt with popeye, it allows fluid to pass through the eye helping reduce swelling, but I dont think it will help with other types of internal infection. I could be wrong though.

I have used frozen organic peas before. Worked well. They wouldnt eat them whole though. I had to cut each one in half. Then I would have to clean out all the pea skins almost every day.

 

[Aqua410]

The seachem version of metronidazole is good I believe its called Metpro or something like that, they sell it at House of Tropicals. A trick I used with great success in getting medication in my GT's system is to make up a solution of one measure of metro in a small amount of warm water and make sure it mixes very well as the solubility isn't excellent. Once the medicine is dissolved in solution I used a syringe to inject the mixture into the body of a large night crawler. Don't inject too much because the worm explodes and it's gross. Once I got this in his system the parasites disappeared quickly.

Also look into swim bladder disease. I don't know much about this illness but I do recall hearing that it causes fish to list in the water and have problems staying upright.

 

[dankdabe]

All,

Just wanted to provide a quick update. My JD is spending most of his time on his side, either directly on the sand, on plants, or on some driftwood, breathing slowly but still full of color. He does have a curve to his body as he lies down. He does still have the ability to right himself and swims quickly to the top of the tank when I come into the room and tap on his lid for feeding time.

He got one real treatment of parasite guard (metronidazole) last Thursday night and I was able to treat the tank with the remaining tabs (treats 20 gal, I have a 55) of parasite guard last night after a 30% WC. My roomie fed him de-skinned organic peas and NLS pellets soaked in the metro while I was gone over the weekend. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anything has helped him since then.

I have more parasite guard getting here tomorrow and will dose again. I also have some Kanaplex, API General Cure, and aquarium salt in the mail from Big Al's. I think I'll move to Kanaplex after this next dose of parasite guard.

Anyone have any other recommendations. Not really sure what else I can do what meds to turn to. In the meantime, I'm doing lots of small wc's trying to keep water quality as good as possible and feeding the med soaked peas/pellets

Thanks,

David

 

[Hawkman2000]

Pimafix and Melafix wouldn't hurt.

Almost sounds like they fish equivalent to kidney or liver failure.

Really sucks.

 

[dankdabe]

I have some melafix on hand but is it bad to mix with the chemical meds?

 

[Hawkman2000]

I don't think so. Pima and Mela are natural extracts. Can't see how they would cause a problem.

 

[JLW]

I'd be very, very wary about mixing any medications, including pima and melafix. The oils in both can and do interact with some medications. Always wait -at least- 7 days before trying another medication. Remember that, especially in the case of internal parasites, you can wipe them out today, and a week from now, the fish will still be "sick;" it takes time for the animal to recover from the infestation after its been eliminated. Hitting it with another medication just stresses the kidneys out more.

 

[dankdabe]

Great advice, thank you! I'm planning to wait out the weekend and try kanaplex next week. He doesn't appear any better after the parasite guard but I'm still holding out hope he'll turn around.



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[dankdabe]

Happy to report that Jabrobro (Male JD) appears to be on the mend. He's swimming around with lots more control and is out and about chasing/courting his lady like old times. He is still skinny but looks to be adding weight and doesn't appear so gaunt. He's got a voracious appetite and is actually ingesting all of his food, which he wasn't last week. He's still laying on his side at times but seems to be getting better. I just did a WC and dosed the tank with API general cure to make sure any parasite that ails him is eradicated. Also feeding him metro soaked pellets once again.

Question. I picked up some aquarium salt and wondering what people think about dosing the tank. I added Epsom salt 2 weeks ago and have since done many water changes. Any thoughts on how much to add?

Thanks for everyone's help.

David


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[Cleanwater]

I would use regular freshwater aquarium salt.

I had success with epsom salt with popeye, it allows fluid to pass through the eye helping reduce swelling, but I dont think it will help with other types of internal infection. I could be wrong though.

I have used frozen organic peas before. Worked well. They wouldnt eat them whole though. I had to cut each one in half. Then I would have to clean out all the pea skins almost every day.

Organic Baby Food peas are already skinned and freeze up pretty well.

 

[dankdabe]

Update on my sick JD

Well, nothing seems to have worked unfortunately. After treating with Parasite meds, peas, epsom salt, kanaplex (anti-bacterial), and Fungal cure over the past month or so, nothing seems to fix his physical issues.

Jabrobro, my ~7yr old sick male JD seems to be content laying on his side on plants or driftwood and swimming around to court his lady and eat food, but that's it. He eats voraciously, so I guess he'll keep kicking for a while longer. He is still skinny, and has a defined bend to his body with what appears to be a protrusion located by his pectoral fin, behind the gil. His fins are still clamped a bit, but he does seem happy and coherent for good stretches of time. At this point it doesn't seem there is anything left for me to do. I've read a million posts and articles as I've tried to diagnose his ailments and have not been able to pin it down. I guess he could have fish tuberculosis as ridiculous as it sounds. I'll likely try aquarium salt and melafix just cuz I have it on hand, but I'm at a loss here.

I'm moving at the beginning of July to Charleston, SC (and will likely be looking for advice/reading old posts as I prep for that in addition to selling off my Africans and some gear so watch out for that post). I'll be upgrading him and his lady to a 75 down there if he makes the trip. Poor guy. Thanks for everyone's help and advice.

David