How did the AM2 auction logistics go for you?

[chriscoli]

I have another question for all of you that attended the AquaMania 2 Auction.

Since we wanted to accept credit card payments, we had to change a few things around compared to how we've run the monthly club auctions in the past. We'd like to continue to use this format for our future club meetings but I want your feedback on how it went.

There are still a few things to be worked out, of course, and a few things that we'll have to get used to. For example, since we're going to pay out at the end, we've got to make sure that all of the runner cards are back to the cashier's desk after the last lot is sold before we can start checking out everyone en masse. It just takes a few minutes, but I know that when people want to hit the road and get going it may feel like an eternity, especially when there's a line.

- Were the bidder card numbers visible from the front of the room?

- Did the clerk tags (the card that the runner had with them when they brought your winning item back to you) make sense to everyone?

- Overall, did the flow go ok? Everything from queuing up the lots, to taking them to the winner, and then bringing the clerk tag back to the cashier.

- Since we had to cash out at the end (running the credit card swiper to each winner for each lot is not practical), we had to take a driver's license or ID of some sort....I wasn't sure what's reasonable to expect from the kids. Kids, do you have any feedback? would school IDs be ok in the future or is there something better? what's appropriate?

Any thoughts you have would be great. As usual, please feel free to PM me or another board member if you prefer not to post here.

 

[JasonC]

I think it is Fantastic that we tried this out and it seems to have worked well. Couple of thoughts...

- paying sellers... what is going to be protocol for this? I cant imagine that you are going to want to have to bring enough petty cash to cover all the CC and paypal payments, so are we going to a check mailed after the monthly meeting, and if so, what kind of turn around time should we expect?

- Kids... to be honest, if you are going to make the process more formal, the only thing you *may* be able to accept is a parents ID or CC or something... I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like when you are issuing bidder cards and taking collateral, you are entering an arrangement where there are "contractual" obligations that a minor cannot legally enter? Dunno... maybe I am over-thinking it... what does PVAS do at their meetings?

- Only other "flow of things" idea is that maybe runners should not be bringing up something they want to be an active bidder on, and as part of their responsibilities, they should also be playing spotter for the auctioneer to make sure we are capturing all bids?

Over all though, this is a *really* good thing.

 

[chriscoli]

Very good points. We were discussing what we want to do for sellers, and I don't want to speak incorrectly so I'll allow others to answer that if we've reached a decision. Just know that we are thinking about that part right now.

Agreed that runners need to be paying attention to the auction and not preferentially picking out items just because they like them. In fact it probably works better to run something you're not interested in so that you can be paying full attention when the item you really want comes up.

Anyone from PVAS or with general auction experience, please speak up if you've got comments!

 

[Forester]

I think it is Fantastic that we tried this out and it seems to have worked well. Couple of thoughts...

- paying sellers... what is going to be protocol for this? I cant imagine that you are going to want to have to bring enough petty cash to cover all the CC and paypal payments, so are we going to a check mailed after the monthly meeting, and if so, what kind of turn around time should we expect?

- Kids... to be honest, if you are going to make the process more formal, the only thing you *may* be able to accept is a parents ID or CC or something... I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like when you are issuing bidder cards and taking collateral, you are entering an arrangement where there are "contractual" obligations that a minor cannot legally enter? Dunno... maybe I am over-thinking it... what does PVAS do at their meetings?

- Only other "flow of things" idea is that maybe runners should not be bringing up something they want to be an active bidder on, and as part of their responsibilities, they should also be playing spotter for the auctioneer to make sure we are capturing all bids?

Over all though, this is a *really* good thing.

School Id's could work but I don't carry mine on me and they don't really have significance. We might be able to use our CCA Id's. My parents don't stay and so I doubt that i would be allowed to give you their CC. The only problem with this format is you can't leave early. To help with that I think we should cash only bidder cards where you pay right away but then we can also have the regular ones for paying later.


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[PaleoCook]

I would have liked to attend the rare fish auction, but it was simply held to late in the evening for me.

 

[festaedan]

I had a blast at the auction. It was probably my favorite part of aquamania. It seemed like every time I voted for something I forgot I had to raise the card so i just raised my hand and quickly picked up my card and when I look up i just accidentally bid like $50 on a fish I didnt want to spend more than $30 on. I wouldnt mind using that format at the next meeting but I prefer the old one.

 

[Jmty]

checks send home or hold for the next mtg. is a great idea,sometimes you don't want or can't stay for the mtg.and if you get only 1 item to sell have to wait 2-3 hours for a couple $,don't think is necessary to remain at the mtg.if the stamp and envelope is to be discounted from your money just be it.my 2 cents.

 

[verbal]

Very good points. We were discussing what we want to do for sellers, and I don't want to speak incorrectly so I'll allow others to answer that if we've reached a decision. Just know that we are thinking about that part right now.

Agreed that runners need to be paying attention to the auction and not preferentially picking out items just because they like them. In fact it probably works better to run something you're not interested in so that you can be paying full attention when the item you really want comes up.

Anyone from PVAS or with general auction experience, please speak up if you've got comments!

PVAS mini-auctions are cash only, with tabs on an exception basis(and someone who is well known to the club) . In the past we have done cash cards for bidders at the big auctions, this could be an option for kids who don't have an ID.

What may be the best thing to do is phase in with a few trial tabs and if those go smoothly switch to predominantly using tabs.

 

[ddavila06]

Jesse has elaborated a great idea to spread out the auction items so that everything is shuffled well. we have tested that twice at pvas with great results for the mini auctions.. lets see if he can give some details

 

[mchambers]

Legal stuff

- Kids... to be honest, if you are going to make the process more formal, the only thing you *may* be able to accept is a parents ID or CC or something... I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like when you are issuing bidder cards and taking collateral, you are entering an arrangement where there are "contractual" obligations that a minor cannot legally enter? Dunno... maybe I am over-thinking it... what does PVAS do at their meetings?

I'm a lawyer, but not in the highly specialized area of aquarium auctions! Still, I don't think taking a driver's license creates any different legal obligation. It just gives buyers the message that they really do have to play.

 

[Andrewtfw]

Agreed that runners need to be paying attention to the auction and not preferentially picking out items just because they like them. In fact it probably works better to run something you're not interested in so that you can be paying full attention when the item you really want comes up.

This was not much of an issue at the AM auction. One or two runners showed interest in an item. I asked them to step out and not run while the item they were interested in was up for bid. A hiccup could be when the runner is delivering and the next item up is of interest.

There were occasional attempts to run an item of personal interest. I pulled items to address variety. I tried to monitor the runners to make sure they did not take an item out of the order I set them in.

Perhaps in club meets we need to have someone selecting items for runners to run so there is no conflict of interest.

 

[verbal]

Perhaps in club meets we need to have someone selecting items for runners to run so there is no conflict of interest.

The system that Damian mentioned for the PVAS mini-auctions is using the last digit of the item number to group the categories. Then the starting category is based on the last digit of the door prize - but really any random digit will work. Once the first category is done then the next group is taken. So if you start with the 4s, the next is 5s and so on. While for a particular auction someone may have good or bad luck, over the year it should even out.

Any priority items - donations/BAP can go before this system starts.

 

[chriscoli]

Good comments Jesse. I've also been intending to make it down for a few meetings to see how you all run your auction in detail and check out your new system.

I think we're doing ok, but it's nice to see the various ways to improve.

 

[chriscoli]

This was not much of an issue at the AM auction. One or two runners showed interest in an item. I asked them to step out and not run while the item they were interested in was up for bid. A hiccup could be when the runner is delivering and the next item up is of interest.

There were occasional attempts to run an item of personal interest. I pulled items to address variety. I tried to monitor the runners to make sure they did not take an item out of the order I set them in.

Perhaps in club meets we need to have someone selecting items for runners to run so there is no conflict of interest.

Thanks for being vigilant, and good to know it wasn't a big deal. I agree, we should have someone monitoring the table during auctions. We've recently even had lots forgotten about so an extra pair of eyes is probably a great thing. So....now we need another volunteer!

 

[dogofwar]

And in the greater law of karma, stolen fish not only die...they infect the thief's other fish with incurable disease. And maybe the thief as well

Matt

I'm a lawyer, but not in the highly specialized area of aquarium auctions! Still, I don't think taking a driver's license creates any different legal obligation. It just gives buyers the message that they really do have to play.

 

[chriscoli]

School Id's could work but I don't carry mine on me and they don't really have significance. We might be able to use our CCA Id's. My parents don't stay and so I doubt that i would be allowed to give you their CC. The only problem with this format is you can't leave early. To help with that I think we should cash only bidder cards where you pay right away but then we can also have the regular ones for paying later.


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Yep, maybe CCA IDs would work for us for the kids. I'll discuss with the board.

 

[lkelly]

And in the greater law of karma, stolen fish not only die...they infect the thief's other fish with incurable disease. And maybe the thief as well

Matt

Says the guy who just stole fish out of their life long home in Uruguay!

Just kidding...

 

[dogofwar]

Was wondering why my leg was so itchy

Matt

Says the guy who just stole fish out of their life long home in Uruguay!

Just kidding...

 

[Pat Kelly]

I have been to many auctions where you have both bidder cards and cash bidders.
At a meeting, the cash people and the kids pay as they buy like they have always done. The only people who have a bidder card are those who want to pay by Credit card or who want to run a tab. If you don't have a drivers license your only choice is to pay cash.
If you are planning to leave early, you only pay cash because the CC can only check out at the end.

 

[JasonC]

I'm a lawyer, but not in the highly specialized area of aquarium auctions! Still, I don't think taking a driver's license creates any different legal obligation. It just gives buyers the message that they really do have to play.

More of a contractual obligation thing I was thinking of... who is responsible if someone bails or gets in over their heads? When there is meaningful collateral, thats one thing... but if there is no collateral, or a parent says "hell no we arent paying.. you cant hold a minor accountable" what do we do? Not saying that minors are the only ones who would do this at all.. but again... what is meaningful collateral to them? Hold their cell phone hostage? ;P

And I really liked the idea mentioned of a prepay system... seems like maybe a good idea for adults on a budget as well. Maybe a lot of work for someone though...

Hell, since we are brainstorming right now, what about offering the option of taking paypal accounts and invoicing for payment instead of paying at the auction? Seems this would help to ease the end-of-auction crush? Since you would have the weight of paypal's legal department to enforce non payment, may even ease the need to take ID and check people out? I'd even be willing to swallow the 2.9% + $.30 fee as a convenience tax. Just a thought...