dogofwar
CCA Members
Seems like the most reliable "heater" is the thermostat for our house... set at 72... which translates to about 76 for my top row of tanks in the basement fishroom and 67 for the tanks on the floor.
Matt
Matt
mchambers
Former CCA member
Heaters are definitely the Achilles heel of this hobby.
Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the two Deep Blue heaters I have. I also like the Cobalt Accutherm I bought last fall -- very accurate and steady. Have also had very good results with the Aqueon Pros.
I picked up a Fluval E series at the PVAS all day auction in April, and it looks good, but haven't used it yet. I've got an old Jager that is wonderful.
I haven't had good luck with Marineland heaters. One recently failed on me. Luckily, it just stopped heating the tank. No overheating or anything like that.
Like Matt Q, I'll be shutting off my heaters in most tanks shortly.
I keep mine mostly horizontal, to make water changes easier, and to make them easier to hide. I read somewhere that this isn't good, something having to do with the seals. I wasn't convinced by this argument, however.
As far as ich goes, you should search this forum. There's some good advice on treating it.
Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the two Deep Blue heaters I have. I also like the Cobalt Accutherm I bought last fall -- very accurate and steady. Have also had very good results with the Aqueon Pros.
I picked up a Fluval E series at the PVAS all day auction in April, and it looks good, but haven't used it yet. I've got an old Jager that is wonderful.
I haven't had good luck with Marineland heaters. One recently failed on me. Luckily, it just stopped heating the tank. No overheating or anything like that.
Like Matt Q, I'll be shutting off my heaters in most tanks shortly.
I keep mine mostly horizontal, to make water changes easier, and to make them easier to hide. I read somewhere that this isn't good, something having to do with the seals. I wasn't convinced by this argument, however.
As far as ich goes, you should search this forum. There's some good advice on treating it.
QuarterMiler
Members
I have quite a few Jagers, generally bought in bulk(6 or more) for a discount from Jehmco. They have worked well for me. I will buy nothing with the Deep Blue name on it. I had lights from them that failed miserably, and when taking it apart I realized that it was made from the cheapest of cheap components. I certainly wouldn't trust them to build quality heaters!
AndyNarwhal
Members
Placing a heater horizontally doesn't affect the seals but it can be a safety issue.
Reason being is that the thermal cut off switch or fuse (installed in all UL approved heaters as a safety measure during a run dry situation) is located on the pc board above the heating element. When the heater is placed vertically the heat from the element rises up into the area where the thermal cut off is. During a run dry situation this will cause the heater to shut off should it overheat.
When placed horizontally, the heat from the heating element rises up and away from the thermal cutoff. During a run dry situation the thermal cut off never gets hot enough to shut off the heater.
Andy
Reason being is that the thermal cut off switch or fuse (installed in all UL approved heaters as a safety measure during a run dry situation) is located on the pc board above the heating element. When the heater is placed vertically the heat from the element rises up into the area where the thermal cut off is. During a run dry situation this will cause the heater to shut off should it overheat.
When placed horizontally, the heat from the heating element rises up and away from the thermal cutoff. During a run dry situation the thermal cut off never gets hot enough to shut off the heater.
Andy
Becca
Members
I've always sworn by the Ebo Jager heaters, which used to be available in stores, but I think around 2004 most stores stopped carrying them. The last place I remember seeing one for sale was in an "herbology" shop in Geneva, Switzerland, where it is legal to grow special gardens, but not to sell the byproducts of such gardens.
I've noticed those heaters are still available online though. I liked them and, even though they have a "water line" they really are fully submersible.
I've noticed those heaters are still available online though. I liked them and, even though they have a "water line" they really are fully submersible.
Heaters suck. I have found Eheims Jagers to be pretty reasonable, though you still need to calibrate them to figure out what temperature they think they are heating to. Conveniently Eheim includes an adjustment for this.
That said on any big tank full of pricy fish I use Jehmco temperature controllers. This is a much pricier solution (You still need a heater and the controller is about $80) but it is a much more solid solution. From what I can tell the Jehmco (really a Ranco controller) is a very well regarded and reliable piece of equipment.
Cobalt also makes a controller, using the base controller of there new heater, which might be an option as well.
For a big tank full of fish that I love very much, I just wouldn't trust the standard out of the box heating solutions....
That said on any big tank full of pricy fish I use Jehmco temperature controllers. This is a much pricier solution (You still need a heater and the controller is about $80) but it is a much more solid solution. From what I can tell the Jehmco (really a Ranco controller) is a very well regarded and reliable piece of equipment.
Cobalt also makes a controller, using the base controller of there new heater, which might be an option as well.
For a big tank full of fish that I love very much, I just wouldn't trust the standard out of the box heating solutions....
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
There's that
Would think that is in such a confined internal space with so much energy that it would get plenty hot enough to trigger the cut-off unless maybe the heater was upside down. In any case, seems a slightly inclined placement would/should allow the heat to still rise and trigger the shut-off per design. This is assuming said model of heater even has a cut-off - not at all sure if that is yet standard/required.
Would think that is in such a confined internal space with so much energy that it would get plenty hot enough to trigger the cut-off unless maybe the heater was upside down. In any case, seems a slightly inclined placement would/should allow the heat to still rise and trigger the shut-off per design. This is assuming said model of heater even has a cut-off - not at all sure if that is yet standard/required.
AndyNarwhal
Members
As someone who validates and tests heaters (among other things) for a living what I said is absolutely true and I have validated it experimentally. I think I have mentioned it in the past but I work in R&D for Central Aquatics (Aqueon, Coralife, Kent, Oceanic, Zilla).
A thermal cut off is a requirement per UL/CSA testing and you will find very few heaters that are not UL/CSA listed available for sale (it's actually illegal in Canada to not have it listed). Without a thermal cut off the heater will not pass the tissue paper test.
In this test the heater is laid horizontally and two layers of tissue paper are laid on top the heater. If the tissue paper blackens from the heat it fails.
Most thermal cutoffs are designed to kick in somewhere between 150 and 300 degrees F. Temperatures at the heating element (in a run dry situation) can exceed 600 degrees F. Thermal cutoffs are pretty much standard features on any heater. Otherwise there is a very high fire and safety risk.
Now this test is a different than a situation where the heater is half submerged and half emersed (like in a sump with a low water level). When half submerged the water actually keeps part of the heater cool. So the top half of the heater gets super hot from the rising heat but the bottom remains cool from the water. The thermal cut off never kicks in and the result is a large temperature differential in the glass. This causes the heater to shatter.
But if the heater is placed vertically and the bottom of the heating element was under water and the PC board was exposed the rising heat in the tube would trigger the thermal cutoff and prevent the temperature differential.
You are correct that flipping the heater upside down would cause the same issue.
Andy
mchambers
Former CCA member
Very interesting. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
Different experience
I've found their T5 fixtures to be very reliable and far superior to comparable Coralife units in terms of materials/design. The Deep Blue units are at least reparable - the Coralife units simply cannot be fixed if defective.
I've found their T5 fixtures to be very reliable and far superior to comparable Coralife units in terms of materials/design. The Deep Blue units are at least reparable - the Coralife units simply cannot be fixed if defective.
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
Interesting and good to know.
Never said I didn't believe you, just reflecting (and illustrating) on how little I know about thermal conductivity in confined air spaces. Inclined positioning should work however, yes?
Curious/bizarre that the sensitivity of the cut-off switch allows temps of 150°-300° or is there some reason that switches with a lower sensitivity aren't utilized, e.g., because that's the range of internal temperature inside a normally functioning unit?
Never said I didn't believe you, just reflecting (and illustrating) on how little I know about thermal conductivity in confined air spaces. Inclined positioning should work however, yes?
Curious/bizarre that the sensitivity of the cut-off switch allows temps of 150°-300° or is there some reason that switches with a lower sensitivity aren't utilized, e.g., because that's the range of internal temperature inside a normally functioning unit?
scientist0724
Members
I've used the Jagers and found them to be very reliable. I recently got a Cobalt as a prize from the Aquarium Beautiful competition and I absolutely love it. I hope to buy some more of them in the future.
Arlene
Arlene
cobalt? do you know where they are made from? its the first time i have heard about them..pretty pricey too..just looked them up.. anyone else with more info or experience with cobalt heaters?
jonclark96
Past CCA President
I have a Cobalt from AquaMania and it works great.
mchambers
Former CCA member
As I said earlier in the thread, I have a Cobalt Accutherm and like it a lot. Cobalt Aquatics is a relatively new business. They make some interesting stuff, including some interesting probiotic fish food.
www.cobaltaquatics.com
www.cobaltaquatics.com
scientist0724
Members
Cobalt is a new company and they were one of the sponsors of Aquamania and probably of CCA.
I had never heard of them before either, but I love that they are "flat" and fit along a skinny area on the back wall of my tank. They are also black so they blend in with a dark background. I put the one that I won in my 17 gallon rimless tank and you can barely tell that it's back there.
Arlene
I had never heard of them before either, but I love that they are "flat" and fit along a skinny area on the back wall of my tank. They are also black so they blend in with a dark background. I put the one that I won in my 17 gallon rimless tank and you can barely tell that it's back there.
Arlene
dogofwar
CCA Members
They were a very generous AquaMania sponsor, sponsored the AquaMania Aquarium Beautiful Award Ceremony and are all around good folks.
We raffled lots of Cobalt equipment at AquaMania and I think Arlene won a nice heater as a prize for Beautifullest Aquarium at AquaMania
Jon - do we have any Cobalt heaters remaining as raffle prizes?
Matt
We raffled lots of Cobalt equipment at AquaMania and I think Arlene won a nice heater as a prize for Beautifullest Aquarium at AquaMania
Jon - do we have any Cobalt heaters remaining as raffle prizes?
Matt
jonclark96
Past CCA President
There are a few left for club raffles/auction. I think there was one in the April raffle.
mchambers
Former CCA member
Interestingly, the Cobalt accutherm user manual has diagrams that suggest that it should not be horizontal. Guess I will tilt mine a little.
Old or New?
hmmmm... since like a lot of people are using eheim, cobalt, and fluval series heaters collectively.. so far, eheim and fluval have been around for a long time, and many aquarists who posted here find them reliable and proven over time.. as for those who have the cobalts, its a relatively new product as you guys have mentioned, and are far more expensive than the "proven" heaters.. so the question is.. old or new?
hmmmm... since like a lot of people are using eheim, cobalt, and fluval series heaters collectively.. so far, eheim and fluval have been around for a long time, and many aquarists who posted here find them reliable and proven over time.. as for those who have the cobalts, its a relatively new product as you guys have mentioned, and are far more expensive than the "proven" heaters.. so the question is.. old or new?
