hollyfish2000
Members
I've never used a biowheel before. The Marineland kit came with one. It has two "slots." One is for the filter cartridge. In the other, I can use another cartridge or can I move loose media currently in the AC?
From AC to BioWheel
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Is AC referring to AquaClear? The Marineland filter should have come with a plastic refillable cartridge that you can use for any other loose medium you like - ammo chips, more carbon, etc. You can use either the regular cartride or both the regular cartridge and the plastic one with your other medium.
hollyfish2000
Members
Yes, I"m refering to an Aqua Clear, in which I currently have a small amount of loose media (the little round ceramic thingees).
The biowheel Penguin 150, I think, came with one cartridge that you slip into a slot. It is not reusable and is supposed to be replaced every 2 to four weeks,apparently. The filter has a second slot into which you can put another of these cartridges (it only came prepped with one) or, I think, you can throw loose media into the area instead. I wanted to preserve the bio culture existing on that media.
The biowheel Penguin 150, I think, came with one cartridge that you slip into a slot. It is not reusable and is supposed to be replaced every 2 to four weeks,apparently. The filter has a second slot into which you can put another of these cartridges (it only came prepped with one) or, I think, you can throw loose media into the area instead. I wanted to preserve the bio culture existing on that media.
Reel Addiction
Members
Not sure why you converted from the AC, but each is own. I have ran both and find the aquaclear less work and cheaper. You mentioned this by saying the inserts have to be replaced.
After spending the money on changing the inserts, I finally bought the gray inserts offline that open up and you can put your own material in there. I think they are $8 a piece, but after not buying the inserts you get your money back.
Good luck with the new filter and check into the inserts to make it not cost so much.
After spending the money on changing the inserts, I finally bought the gray inserts offline that open up and you can put your own material in there. I think they are $8 a piece, but after not buying the inserts you get your money back.
Good luck with the new filter and check into the inserts to make it not cost so much.
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
I never replace the cartridges until the floss disintegrates...
...as charcoal is the most overrated media in the biz. Replacing cartridges after two weeks means that you're ditching them just when they've finally got a really good bacterial colony built up in/on them.
I have two Emperor 400s and I just run cartridges in all the slots with an extra piece of thin foam sheet cut to fit the back cartridge on each side - it's all about surface area for bacteria and that creates a lot of it, and a bit more when you use an open mesh/coarse pre-filter to catch the bigger stuff.
The thing about foam is that it doesn't get clogged up like the interstices quickly do on charcoal - doesn't absorb POPs and other toxins the way charcoal does (albeit briefly) but that's not really or nearly the problem for most people that denitrification is, hence my disdain for charcoal.
The whole religiosity about replacing cartridges is a huge scam designed to keep folks spending money rather needlessly. Real filters use media that endures, not cheap disposable one use throw it in the trash gimmickry. I have a ton of extra ML Emperor 250/400 cartridges (was given a shopping bag full of them) as well as a couple of the slotted media trays I'd be happy to give you since I easily get 6-10 months+ out of mine and really don't need a ten-year supply of cartridges on hand.
There's a reason that so many people including breeders use foam/sponge/floss filters and nothing else in their tanks - they work really really well at biological and mechanical filtration. The booyah about chemical filtration is mostly just that - corporate sponsored paranoia to get folks all worked up about spending money on prophylactic treatments that (1) aren't very good anyway; and (2) are just about totally useless/unnecessary.
Bottom line is that the only really useful part of most cartridges is the plastic frame which can be used to make a qulaity media tray using lava rock/ceramic rings and a quality piece of foam mesh that won't fall apart after a few months. Fact is that nearly every cartridge filter being sold could come with a durable high-performance cartridge that lasted a couple of years minimum, but that's not where/how they make their money. The really surprising thing is that they just don't give the filters away for free, the way a pusher does the first few times to get one hooked. It's a lot like the way a few companies gave away printers years ago because the replacement cartridges were so expensive and had to be replaced after printing just a few hundred copies.
...as charcoal is the most overrated media in the biz. Replacing cartridges after two weeks means that you're ditching them just when they've finally got a really good bacterial colony built up in/on them.
I have two Emperor 400s and I just run cartridges in all the slots with an extra piece of thin foam sheet cut to fit the back cartridge on each side - it's all about surface area for bacteria and that creates a lot of it, and a bit more when you use an open mesh/coarse pre-filter to catch the bigger stuff.
The thing about foam is that it doesn't get clogged up like the interstices quickly do on charcoal - doesn't absorb POPs and other toxins the way charcoal does (albeit briefly) but that's not really or nearly the problem for most people that denitrification is, hence my disdain for charcoal.
The whole religiosity about replacing cartridges is a huge scam designed to keep folks spending money rather needlessly. Real filters use media that endures, not cheap disposable one use throw it in the trash gimmickry. I have a ton of extra ML Emperor 250/400 cartridges (was given a shopping bag full of them) as well as a couple of the slotted media trays I'd be happy to give you since I easily get 6-10 months+ out of mine and really don't need a ten-year supply of cartridges on hand.
There's a reason that so many people including breeders use foam/sponge/floss filters and nothing else in their tanks - they work really really well at biological and mechanical filtration. The booyah about chemical filtration is mostly just that - corporate sponsored paranoia to get folks all worked up about spending money on prophylactic treatments that (1) aren't very good anyway; and (2) are just about totally useless/unnecessary.
Bottom line is that the only really useful part of most cartridges is the plastic frame which can be used to make a qulaity media tray using lava rock/ceramic rings and a quality piece of foam mesh that won't fall apart after a few months. Fact is that nearly every cartridge filter being sold could come with a durable high-performance cartridge that lasted a couple of years minimum, but that's not where/how they make their money. The really surprising thing is that they just don't give the filters away for free, the way a pusher does the first few times to get one hooked. It's a lot like the way a few companies gave away printers years ago because the replacement cartridges were so expensive and had to be replaced after printing just a few hundred copies.
Alright, first of all, there is no charcoal in the cartridges. It is activated carbon. There is a big difference-read about it in the Summer 2010 issue of Tank Tales: http://www.aclcpa.org/tank-tales.html. Second, it does not ABsorb anything, it ADsorbs (gets locked into the surface of the medium) POPS and toxins. Activated carbon has many times more ADsorption sites than does charcoal. Third, the cartridges are totally reusable. Running them under HOT water and running your fingers over the surface of the cartridge will unclog the mechanical filter, and release bound chemicals from the ADsorption sites of the activated carbon. They can be recharged several times before being replaced. Fourth, the biowheel provides ample colonization sites for bacteria to grow, and the colonization of the removable media is not needed, nor is it recommended (in any filter really-if you have an AC you really should have a separate biological filter,perhaps a sponge) since you really want as much of your bacteria colony as possible to stay in the filter when you change your cartridges, otherwise your tank will cycle again.
Most people don't realize that activated carbon (charcoal if you will) can be recharged. The small amount of "charcoal" in the cartridge is the main reason for replacing them. But you should have gotten a gray plastic cartridge with the filter, which you can add more "charcoal" to. Maybe the smaller filter does not come with that; I've only bought the Penguin 330. The other reason not to go with the Penguins is that the biowheel can come to a slow pace, or even a stop. As long as it is moving, it is fine. But I find the Emperor models to be preferable, since they have a spray bar that shoots the water right onto the biowheel.
Most people don't realize that activated carbon (charcoal if you will) can be recharged. The small amount of "charcoal" in the cartridge is the main reason for replacing them. But you should have gotten a gray plastic cartridge with the filter, which you can add more "charcoal" to. Maybe the smaller filter does not come with that; I've only bought the Penguin 330. The other reason not to go with the Penguins is that the biowheel can come to a slow pace, or even a stop. As long as it is moving, it is fine. But I find the Emperor models to be preferable, since they have a spray bar that shoots the water right onto the biowheel.
FishInMaryland
Members
The older Marineland Penguin filters came with an open cartridge/basket thingie, into which you could put anything you wanted - bioballs, the Fluval ceramic rings, etc. The newer ones don't, but you can buy them. You can also buy refillable clamshell frames from Drs F&S, into which you can put foam, floss, whatever. They used to sell the refillable clamshells as a standalone item, but now they seem to come only if you buy their own brand of Bio3 cartridges, that come with an "extra" refillable frame. I have an old 330 and have the baskets filled with Fluval rings, and the F&S frames filled with foam. I also have a newer 350 that just has refillable frames with foam, but I have a sponge prefilter on the intake. I've never replaced the biowheels on either, and one pair is at least 7 years old and the other is about 2 years old.
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Semantics aside about activated carbon/charcoal, I don't use any in any of my tanks, unless I'm trying to remove medication.
I used to put it in filter boxes, but now prefer to simply stuff them with floss.
I don't have many of the Biowheel filters, but on the couple I have, agree with reusing the pads until they fall apart.
Aquaclears can be used as a stand-alone filtration option in a smaller tank. Simply use dechlorinated water or siphoned tank water to rinse out the sponges, thereby preserving the bacteria.
I used to put it in filter boxes, but now prefer to simply stuff them with floss.
I don't have many of the Biowheel filters, but on the couple I have, agree with reusing the pads until they fall apart.
Aquaclears can be used as a stand-alone filtration option in a smaller tank. Simply use dechlorinated water or siphoned tank water to rinse out the sponges, thereby preserving the bacteria.
Really, if you do enough water changes, you do not need anything but biological and mechanical filtration, so a rinsed cartridge with spent carbon is fine in that case.
hollyfish2000
Members
Oh my, didn't mean to open a can of worms! The AC I have is small and only for a 10 gallon. The penguin I just got is for a 30 gallon and it came with the Marineland 20 gallon kit. As it's larger, I was switching to it. I'm also using a sponge filter, too, in the tank. This tank is just for possibly breeding green dragon BNs . . . well, we'll see if that works
In any event, I put the cartridge that came with the filter into one slot and will just throw in whatever other media I want into the space for the second cartridge. I use mostly bio rings in my filters. When the cartridge falls apart, I'll just pull it out and use the whole "well" for whatever filter media I have lying around . . . that should work I'm hearing . . . . I don't usually use carbon in any of my filters.
I could use all three filters, I guess, but that seems overkill for a 20 gallon!
In any event, I put the cartridge that came with the filter into one slot and will just throw in whatever other media I want into the space for the second cartridge. I use mostly bio rings in my filters. When the cartridge falls apart, I'll just pull it out and use the whole "well" for whatever filter media I have lying around . . . that should work I'm hearing . . . . I don't usually use carbon in any of my filters.
I could use all three filters, I guess, but that seems overkill for a 20 gallon!
Hawkman2000
Members
Have been using penguin 350 for about 6 months now and pretty happy with it.
You can get the media cartridge from BigAls Online. I got them for my 350 and filled them with Seachem Matrix. I still use the other cartridges as well.
I rinse of the disposable cartridges once a week and they last 2 to 3 months.
You can get the media cartridge from BigAls Online. I got them for my 350 and filled them with Seachem Matrix. I still use the other cartridges as well.
I rinse of the disposable cartridges once a week and they last 2 to 3 months.
dogofwar
CCA Members
Bio Wheels are based on technology used in waste water treatment plants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_biological_contactor
I knew that degree in Environmental Engineering would be good for something
Matt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_biological_contactor
I knew that degree in Environmental Engineering would be good for something
Matt
EXACTLY!
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
First, absorb or adsorb, while technically and semantically correct and distinct...
...actually makes no difference in this context as the POPs are not really an issue unless you draw water from an extremely polluted source (typically not a local supply for drinking water). Whom here has lost fish because of persistent organic pollutants in their tanks? No one? Wow, now that's really essential technology. Second: most activated carbon is indeed usually produced by pyrolysis, that's right, from charcoal, albeit charcoal that is subsequently modified to give it considerably greater porosity, at least initially before the binding sites are locked up and/or it gets clogged up with detritus and bacteria at which point it ceases to function any better than any other 'porous' media as the water simply flows over it rather than through it. Third, this statement, "the colonization of the removable media is not needed, nor is it recommended" is a complete mystery. Recommended by whom exactly? And on what basis? That the removal of trace amounts of phantom chemical toxins that in reality represent no threat to your fish is more essential than denitrification of metabolic waste products that do? Impeccable reasoning. Last: cycling tanks is a misnomer - it's about cycling filters and the media inside them. Put an established filter in a virgin tank and guess what? It's "cycled". Do a 100% water change on a tank with an established filter - same result. As for moving water or moving bio-wheel, the only difference comes down again to surface area for and duration of contact/interface with beneficial denitrifying bacteria.
Anyone wants to spend money on activated carbon and replaceable filter cartridges, great, go for it, certainly won't do your fish any harm. My point was that I consider it a waste of money and not even remotely necessary or essential to maintaining healthy aquaria. One could make a decent filter out of old cotton socks given decent water circulation if so inclined - not my preference so much as a way of saying that just because something is for sale doesn't mean that you or your fish need it. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go recalibrate my submersible simulated miniature frogman and bubbling sunken pirate ship replica with alternately blinking colored LEDs to make room for the faux Temple of Atlantis.
...actually makes no difference in this context as the POPs are not really an issue unless you draw water from an extremely polluted source (typically not a local supply for drinking water). Whom here has lost fish because of persistent organic pollutants in their tanks? No one? Wow, now that's really essential technology. Second: most activated carbon is indeed usually produced by pyrolysis, that's right, from charcoal, albeit charcoal that is subsequently modified to give it considerably greater porosity, at least initially before the binding sites are locked up and/or it gets clogged up with detritus and bacteria at which point it ceases to function any better than any other 'porous' media as the water simply flows over it rather than through it. Third, this statement, "the colonization of the removable media is not needed, nor is it recommended" is a complete mystery. Recommended by whom exactly? And on what basis? That the removal of trace amounts of phantom chemical toxins that in reality represent no threat to your fish is more essential than denitrification of metabolic waste products that do? Impeccable reasoning. Last: cycling tanks is a misnomer - it's about cycling filters and the media inside them. Put an established filter in a virgin tank and guess what? It's "cycled". Do a 100% water change on a tank with an established filter - same result. As for moving water or moving bio-wheel, the only difference comes down again to surface area for and duration of contact/interface with beneficial denitrifying bacteria.
Anyone wants to spend money on activated carbon and replaceable filter cartridges, great, go for it, certainly won't do your fish any harm. My point was that I consider it a waste of money and not even remotely necessary or essential to maintaining healthy aquaria. One could make a decent filter out of old cotton socks given decent water circulation if so inclined - not my preference so much as a way of saying that just because something is for sale doesn't mean that you or your fish need it. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go recalibrate my submersible simulated miniature frogman and bubbling sunken pirate ship replica with alternately blinking colored LEDs to make room for the faux Temple of Atlantis.
Recommended by anyone who does not want ammonia or nitrite to build up in their established tank. Interesting that you would say that it is a complete mystery, and then go ahead and make the point that seems to be eluding you. You want the bacteria to colonize the materials that are staying in the filter, i.e., the biowheel, and not those that are being replaced. Any time new materials are added to the filter, colonization will begin and ammonia and nitrite levels will rise - much less if the bulk of the established bacterial colonies are left intact. "Cycling tanks" is not a misnomer, it refers to the condition of the water in the tank (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels), as well as the bacterial colonization of the filter. Tank in this context referring to the entire system, not just the glass box that holds water.
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
The only thing elusive here is a lack of condescension.
I understand perfectly well what bacteria do and don't do without pedestrian explanations. Replaceable materials in filters (be they cartridges and/or in your case activated carbon) are, in my estimation, overvalued and unnecessary, the only point I was ever trying to make and one that has yet to be disputed.
If one washes media cartridges in hot (and probably chlorinated) water as you suggest, what does that do to the bacteria? It kills them as you and nearly everyone else knows, which I see as unfortunate since biological filtration is in general the only truly essential type of filtration, and is much more useful and otherwise enduring than witch hunts for alleged and unspecified 'toxins'.
How long does it take to 'cycle' water in a tank? One can measure it in minutes with an established filter depending on filter size and flow rate so yes, cycling a 'tank' is a misnomer as the only essential 'cycle' that must be 'established' is the one that occurs inside the filter. None of this is rocket science. My only intent in weighing in on this thread was to disabuse people of the need to become ensnared in an endless cycle of buying flimsy and overpriced replacement cartridges to perform generally needless removals of toxins that almost never exist in sufficient quantity to merit the cost.
Activated carbon and filters that utilize replaceable/disposable medias are not essential for freshwater aquaria. Period. Furthermore, if one maintains a lot of tanks, disposable cartridges are basically a fool's game given the available options. You obviously are enamored of one or both — so, as it's a free country and you may do whatever you like, bully for you. For my part I will continue to avoid disposable cartridges and maintain that they are like almost everything else that is labeled and sold as 'disposable' (diapers perhaps excepted) - possibly convenient but basically cr*p (guess that includes diapers after all).
Have an unopened carton of 'activated carbon' gathering dust that I can bring to the next meeting - of no use to me and yours for the asking.
Cheers.
I understand perfectly well what bacteria do and don't do without pedestrian explanations. Replaceable materials in filters (be they cartridges and/or in your case activated carbon) are, in my estimation, overvalued and unnecessary, the only point I was ever trying to make and one that has yet to be disputed.
If one washes media cartridges in hot (and probably chlorinated) water as you suggest, what does that do to the bacteria? It kills them as you and nearly everyone else knows, which I see as unfortunate since biological filtration is in general the only truly essential type of filtration, and is much more useful and otherwise enduring than witch hunts for alleged and unspecified 'toxins'.
How long does it take to 'cycle' water in a tank? One can measure it in minutes with an established filter depending on filter size and flow rate so yes, cycling a 'tank' is a misnomer as the only essential 'cycle' that must be 'established' is the one that occurs inside the filter. None of this is rocket science. My only intent in weighing in on this thread was to disabuse people of the need to become ensnared in an endless cycle of buying flimsy and overpriced replacement cartridges to perform generally needless removals of toxins that almost never exist in sufficient quantity to merit the cost.
Activated carbon and filters that utilize replaceable/disposable medias are not essential for freshwater aquaria. Period. Furthermore, if one maintains a lot of tanks, disposable cartridges are basically a fool's game given the available options. You obviously are enamored of one or both — so, as it's a free country and you may do whatever you like, bully for you. For my part I will continue to avoid disposable cartridges and maintain that they are like almost everything else that is labeled and sold as 'disposable' (diapers perhaps excepted) - possibly convenient but basically cr*p (guess that includes diapers after all).
Have an unopened carton of 'activated carbon' gathering dust that I can bring to the next meeting - of no use to me and yours for the asking.
Cheers.
dogofwar
CCA Members
Not to confuse things but I run a combo of a box filter (filled with some gravel to weigh it down + pillow stuffing...for primarily mechanical filtration) and a sponge filter (for primarily bio filtration) on most of my smaller tanks (<75g).
I keep the air high on the box filters...and lower on the sponges (so that they don't get clogged).
I change the pillow stuffing every week or so (throw it out and replace it with new) about every week. I tried to rinse it, but it's a PITA and it's quite cheap (at Michael's use the 50% off coupon).
I don't use chemical filtration (carbon, charcoal, etc.) unless there's a reason...
Matt
PS I think we under-estimate the amount of nitrifying bacteria that colonize our tanks...outside of the filters. EVERYTHING in a tank is basically covered in them after awhile...
I keep the air high on the box filters...and lower on the sponges (so that they don't get clogged).
I change the pillow stuffing every week or so (throw it out and replace it with new) about every week. I tried to rinse it, but it's a PITA and it's quite cheap (at Michael's use the 50% off coupon).
I don't use chemical filtration (carbon, charcoal, etc.) unless there's a reason...
Matt
PS I think we under-estimate the amount of nitrifying bacteria that colonize our tanks...outside of the filters. EVERYTHING in a tank is basically covered in them after awhile...
Good summary of everything I've said.
