Discus swimming heads-up

[chris_todd]

I have four discus I got a week ago (first time I've ever kept them), and now one of them is staying in the front left corner of the tank, not moving around, and is keeping his head angled upward, as if he is gasping for breath at the surface (though he is not, that is just the angle his body is making).

The other inhabitants of the tank - three discus, two German blue rams, and a few dozen red cherry shrimp - do not seem to be acting abnormally.

Since getting these discus, I have tried feeding them frozen mysis shrimp, a little bit of flake food, sinking "catfish pellets", and in the last two days, frozen blood worms. For the first 2-3 days, I did not see the discus eat, but they eventually started eating the catfish pellets, and they have really taken to the blood worms.

Any idea what could be bothering this discus? Should I have avoided feeding them the flake food or sinking pellets? Could this be a swim bladder issue? I don't see any outward signs of disease, like parasites, fungus, fin rot, etc.

 

[YSS]

Hi there,

Unless the discus is pointing its head straight up, it most likely isn't a swim bladder issue. For some reasons, this fish is having a hard time adjusting to the new environment. Usually, raising the temp to 88F or sometimes even higher helps new disucs adjust and eat. I also recommend going over to simplydiscus.com for more info and help. Good luck with your discus.

 

[lonlangione]

Sounds like a singapore discus. Where did you get them? How big are they? What size tank? Has the fish lost color? Is it's face dark in color?
I would not recommend raising the temperature to 88 degrees. I would leave it around 78 - 80 degrees. Also, when you feed them the frozen bloodworms, thaw them out in warm water first. Do not put the frozen piece in the tank. Fish do not like popsicles. It could be like YSS said it will just take a few days for the fish to calm down. Be sure to watch it's pectoral fins. If the fish holds them against it's body and doesn't move them much, get it out of the tank and put it into a quarantine tank.

Lonny

 

[chris_todd]

Lonny, these were 2" red scribbled discus from Scales (therefore, Hans Discus), so they should be comfortable in my tap water, which is not that different from Scales (I'm in the Baltimore suburbs). Tap water is pH 7.6, Nitrates 10 ppm.

They are in a 20 gallon long (yes, I know I'll need to move them to something larger) very heavily planted tank at about 78 degrees F, with a Filstar XP1 filter with sponge pre-filter (I got tired of finding red cherry shrimp in my canister). When I measured the tank water, pH was 7.4, NH4 was zero, but the nitrates were quite high (~30 ppm), so I did a 40% water change. Prior to that, the fish had shown no change in color, and no fin clamping. Since the water change, it has been a bit more active, swimming around the tank with its buddies, but occasionally hanging out heads up.

Thanks for the tip on the popsicles, that's what I had been doing. I'll pre-dissolve them first.

 

[lonlangione]

If they came from Hans and Andrew then I would definitely say the fish is just trying to adjust. I would not treat the tank or anything. Just let the fish work it out. Discus traditionally like taller tanks than a 20 long, but the fish should bounce back. A lot of people make discus out to be real delicate fish, and they tend to over compensate or get real jumpy about keeping them. Just remember, they are cichlids. I would recommend you contact Bev at the Amazon Basement www. amazonbasement.com and try some of the pellet food she has. I feed it to my fish, no I don't have any discus but she does.

Lonny

 

[YSS]

I am sorry, but you will have to raise the temp at least to 86 and more likely 88. Go to simplydiscus and read about discus care. Also, if you have them in a 20G, you will have to do at leats daily 50% water changes. Also, for juvie discus, you will have to feed them anwhere from 5 to 8 times a day. Your juvy discus will not do well in water that cold.

 

[George]

Well, not to argue but you seem to have gotten two extremes here. I do agree that 78 is not going to give you happy, healthy baby Discus in the long run. They will probably live but growth may be slower than you want and they will be more likely to sicken, especially if you keep them with other types of fish.

86 to 88 always seemed a bit high to me. You will get that sort of advice on simply if you do go there. I am not a fan of Simply. I have had Hans' Discus and successfully raised their offspring (100s) at temps of 82 to 84. It is just my opinion that these German Discus you get from Hans are the most bullet proof Discus around. The more sensetive and fragile Discus from Asia may require higher temps. I have a few Hans descendents left now and keep them at 80 to 82. They are adults and do well at those temps. If I decided to breed them, among other things, I would raise the temp to a constant 82 to 84. Right now they have no heater and are subject to fishroom temp fluctuations (80 to 82).

It sounds like you didn't quarantine them. You do realize that was a very bad idea. I suspect you had to get them quick and only had this occupied tank in which to put them. Realize that if you keep doing this you will eventually get bit in the you know what. It isn't just that your other fish could get something from your new introductions, but problems could go in the other direction. Your existing fish may have become carriers of something to give your new fish. Careful, careful.

George

 

[Lively]

It sounds like you didn't quarantine them. You do realize that was a very bad idea. I suspect you had to get them quick and only had this occupied tank in which to put them. Realize that if you keep doing this you will eventually get bit in the you know what. It isn't just that your other fish could get something from your new introductions, but problems could go in the other direction. Your existing fish may have become carriers of something to give your new fish. Careful, careful.

George

I second this! I just dodged a bullet, and I even knew that my new fishies are prone to parasites. But, I had do a quick tank changeroo... mine are recovering now - but I don't think I'll make that mistake again. I'll just make sure I have more tanks for my impulse (auction) buys... lol

 

[crazyclowntang]

give them salt. It seems to be the universal cure for everything:lol: I am just kidding. DON'T DO IT I have no clue on how to deal with Discus.

 

[YSS]

Juvie discus require higher temp to thrive than the adults, at least that's my understanding. Higher temp also stimulate appetite. By the way, I have discus from both Hans and from importers of Asian discus. I would have to disagree that German discus are bullet proof and Asian discus are fragile. Healthy discus that are well taken care of are very robust no matter the source. At least, that's been my experience.

 

[chris_todd]

It sounds like you didn't quarantine them. You do realize that was a very bad idea. I suspect you had to get them quick and only had this occupied tank in which to put them.

Yup, total impulse buy - I was in Scales for their closing sale, and the prospect of small Discus at half price was irresistable. Stupid, but irresistable. I do have a 5.5 gallon tank I keep as a QT tank, but I did not think they would do well in that. I knew it was risky putting them in an occupied tank, but I thought a heavily planted, well established 20g tank was better than an uncycled 5.5g QT tank.

Realize that if you keep doing this you will eventually get bit in the you know what. It isn't just that your other fish could get something from your new introductions, but problems could go in the other direction. Your existing fish may have become carriers of something to give your new fish. Careful, careful.

Thank you for chiding me, I deserve it, especially because I have made this mistake before.

 

[F8LBITE]

any updates? How is that one acting now?

 

[chris_todd]

any updates? How is that one acting now?

I didn't have time to check on him this morning before I went to work, but he was doing much better after the 40% water change last night.

I'll post another update tonight after I get home.

 

[George]

Juvie discus require higher temp to thrive than the adults, at least that's my understanding. Higher temp also stimulate appetite. By the way, I have discus from both Hans and from importers of Asian discus. I would have to disagree that German discus are bullet proof and Asian discus are fragile. Healthy discus that are well taken care of are very robust no matter the source. At least, that's been my experience.

I hear you Yun and the Discus could even like the 88 for awhile but it might even kill his Cherry Reds. The Rams would like it too since 78 is a bit cool for Rams. If the Discus get hungry he might not have to worry about the high temps aside from his nice plants though. Cherry Reds are really not good tank mates for hungry Discus. Only good tank mates I have found for Cherry Reds are small corys, herbivores sucker mouths, and Heterandia.

George


George

 

[Pat Kelly]

I agree with a higher temp. Hans keeps his building at 83 - 84f. Mine look better when I am at 83 or so then when I let it slip down into the 70s.

 

[chris_todd]

I hear you Yun and the Discus could even like the 88 for awhile but it might even kill his Cherry Reds. The Rams would like it too since 78 is a bit cool for Rams. If the Discus get hungry he might not have to worry about the high temps aside from his nice plants though. Cherry Reds are really not good tank mates for hungry Discus. Only good tank mates I have found for Cherry Reds are small corys, herbivores sucker mouths, and Heterandia.
George

Actually, the Red Cherry shrimp are like little red cockroaches - if the Discus like them as a meal, so much the better for the Discus! I doubt the Discus would be able to dent the population, though, there must be well over a hundred in that tank.

I'll increase the temp to over 80* over the next day or two. The plants are crypt wendtii, sunset hygro, rotala wallichii, and polgonum sp., so I'm not sure how they'll deal with the increased temp. We'll see.

I called my wife at lunch, and there was a discus floating dead in the tank, presumably the one that had been behaving strangely. I'll keep an eye on the others, and on the water parameters as well.

Thanks to everyone for all the information and advice.