Breeding CW010

[mchambers]

Thanks

lol

Found far more eggs than I had first seen. Both back corners must have at least 50 per. These were laid for sure over a 2 day period but maybe 3 days. The fertility rate seems ok with only a few showing the white color and no longer clearish. Those I can get close enough to see with a hand lens are showing signs of being viable. I'm guessing they should start to hatch this weekend and maybe some today.

I'm still in awe that this all happened after owning them for 10 months without a spawn. Moved them to a much smaller tank and in 4 days they spawn,

You inspired me to catch 3 cw010 and 3 pandas and move them to a sparsely populated 15 gallon stuffed with lots of oak leaves. I moved them Sunday and found 50-75 eggs this morning and saw another 50 tonight. I'll have to think about how many eggs I want to move to my growout tank.

 

[GTR]

The live food cultures arrived so late I couldn't get them going for this spawn. Looks like about 15 made it to the point that they look like a cory. I can't tell that they are CW010, still mostly translucent with a few dark mottled spots.

The adults are still very shy and are almost never visible in the tank unless I sneak up on them. lol

Congrats on your spawn, I ended up just leaving mine in the tank they were laid in. I don't think I could have saved many in a new tank without any accumulated gunk and no decent food ready for them.

 

[mchambers]

I ended up having a second spawning. I've now got somewhere between 50 and 100 baby corydoras bumbling around in an Eclipse 5.5. Could be both panda corydoras and cw010. I've been feeding Golden Pearls and microworms. Am going away this weekend, so am hoping they like the new Repashy gel food sold by Msjinxd. Verbal/Jesse gave me a sample at the meeting Saturday and it seems perfectly suited to use in a fry tank.

 

[GTR]

Still only the one spawn.

Here's a couple shots with my cheap Kodak point & shake.

 

[mchambers]

Video of fry

Here's a short video of my fry (either CW010 or pandas), with some of the sample of Repashy food that Jesse shared at the last meeting. I'm guessing there are between 50 and 100 fry bumbling around that 5 gallon Eclipse tank.

[YT]SDSugDbVRNo&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/YT]

 

[turfboss]

Matt - I assume these Pandas and CW010's will cross breed - so to keep the line pure they need to be kept in separate tanks?? Just thinking about the 4 Cory breeding groups I have in each of 4 tanks and wondering whether my understanding about keeping them separate is correct so when I get the CW010's (I assume they will be pure) from you I have a separate tank (which I do have) to put them intro.

 

[mchambers]

I haven't seen any cross breeding. There are a few reports of hybrids on the Internet, but I think that is extremely rare. In nature, different corydoras species share the same water. Mike Barber caught C. Atropersonatus, C. Loretoensis, and c123 at the same location in Peru.

So I think you can have more than one species of corydoras in a single tank, as long as you have at least 5 or 6 of each species.

 

[verbal]

I haven't seen any cross breeding. There are a few reports of hybrids on the Internet, but I think that is extremely rare. In nature, different corydoras species share the same water. Mike Barber caught C. Atropersonatus, C. Loretoensis, and c123 at the same location in Peru.

So I think you can have more than one species of corydoras in a single tank, as long as you have at least 5 or 6 of each species.

I think the Corydoras genus is similar to some of the old cichlid genera like "Cichlasoma" and "Haplochromis" where it at some point will likely be broken down. There are some species that are similar/closely related that should not be kept together. Others are probably very unlikely to cross breed.

 

[turfboss]

Thanks guys - am guessing that perhaps those species (like Cory Aeneus and Paleatus as well as BN Ancistrus) that have an Albino form as well as the "normal" coloring are more likely to cross breed that some others. Just wondering since I have different cory breeding groups in different tanks and wondering which I might have in the same tank without the fear of producing hybrid off spring.

 

[Shane]

George,
I do not think that a species with a fixed genetic mutation, like albinism, is any more likely to hybridize than others. There has been some recorded cases of hybridization among Corydoras in both aquaria and nature. In all cases I am aware of these were Corydoras species from the same evolutionary lineage. I think a cross between C. panda and C. sp Cw010 might be a bridge too far. C. sp Cw010 appears to be from the "aeneus complex" though so I definitely would not keep it with others of that complex (i.e. C. aeneus, C. venezuelanus, etc).

As Jesse noted above, there is a paper awaiting publication that will split what we now call Corydoras into several genera.

My own opinion is that hybridization is a rare thing and that, when it does take place, it is nature trying to tell us that our well researched taxonomic conclusions are in fact incorrect.

-Shane

 

[turfboss]

Thanks Shane (and everybody) I am learning and these responses really help - I was thinking (and probably did not say very well) was that the albino version of the C. Aeneus might be more likely to cross breed with the "regular" Aeneus (and the same for the albinos of the Paleatus with the "regular" Paleatus and the BN albinos with the regular BNs) cause I would have thought (although perhaps incorrectly) that they were originally "freaks" from spawn of "normal breeding pairs - which ultimately became more pure as time progressed and they bred with each other producing more "albino" off spring till finally the strain became "pure". All that said however, knowing more about the lineage of any of these species is critical so as to not screw up and wind up hybridizing again - so knowing that I should not mix the cw010's with the C. Aneaus breeding group is critical to understnad - so thanks for the inputs and I will continue to research the lineage a bit to see where the other spicies (Panda's, Paleatus, Sterbi, etc come from so I don't put the wrong breeding groups in the same tank. Again - thanks to everyone for the inputs - this is the coolest group of folks !!!!!

 

[mchambers]

Just to add a little more confusion, there is a recent study that concludes that many corydoras that look alike are actually more than one species:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3592

 

[turfboss]

just what I need - a little more confusion - lol

 

[GTR]

There is no answer.

It is really laughable to see what different ideas are prominent in various naturalists' minds, when they speak of ‘species’; in some, resemblance is everything and descent of little weight—in some, resemblance seems to go for nothing, and Creation the reigning idea—in some, sterility an unfailing test, with others it is not worth a farthing. It all comes, I believe, from trying to define the indefinable. (December 24, 1856; in F. Darwin 1887, vol. 2, 88)

:lol:

 

[Shane]

Just to add a little more confusion, there is a recent study that concludes that many corydoras that look alike are actually more than one species:

Like a lot of people I was very hopeful that the advances in molecular phylogeny would solve many taxonomic questions. Unfortunately it has added as many as it has solved...if not more. Firstly, what percentage of genetic difference equals the arbitrary line we use to define a "species?" Some studies, similar to the one linked above, are drawing those lines with a very fine pen.
Secondly, molecular phylogeny, is cladistic in nature and therefore not fundamentally different than older systems we used (Darwin's above references to "resemblance.") Is genetic difference really all that defines a species? What about habitat, diet, environment, mode of reproduction, etc, etc?

George, here is a link to a chart with the various Corydoras lineages.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v469/n7328/fig_tab/nature09660_F1.html

 

[turfboss]

Thanks Matt and Shane for the responses - The article posted by Matt sure seems to indicate that as we breed similar looking Corys they may not in fact be the same species and are hence hybrids - Steve is at least partially right - there is no answer today - hopefully someday there may be - I guess Darwin would classify that as evolution.