What I did this time - Uruguay Quarantine 2015

[dogofwar]

It's always a challenge to quarantine new straight from the wild fish from Uruguay.

They always come down with ich. Hard. And the fish, especially Gymnogeophagus balzanii, are in the shape that you'd expect fish that have been living in buckets on the road would be, need some TLC.

Here's what I did this time...with pretty good results (so far).

I salted the heck out out of the tanks. 1 tsp / gallon on day 1. And another tsp per gallon on day 2. And another handful of salt on day 3. It seems excessive (and tastes like salt when I did water changes) but it works.

I added "Ich Attack" from Kordon from day 1. It's herbal and smells weird but seems comforting.

I heated the tanks from 76 on day 1 to 82 on day 2 to 86 on day 3.

I had dedicated quarantine tanks. 4 new 29gs and a bunch of bins. With LOTS of air.

I put stressed or battered looking fish in breeder nets. Isolation to minimize stress.

I fed all fish - in my fishroom no less - Ken's metro + garlic flakes - need to get all internal parasites out of the way.


So far so good. Only a few deaths. And a couple of tanks with ich. Still.

Matt

 

[lkelly]

tastes like salt when I did water changes

I'm really questioning your water change process.

Does it taste like gas whenever you fill up your car?

 

[dogofwar]

Mostly coffee. Bad gas station coffee. But only 99 cents

 

[jonclark96]

Thanks for documenting your quarantine process. Hope you have good luck this time.

 

[dogofwar]

Thanks - so far so good!

Matt

Thanks for documenting your quarantine process. Hope you have good luck this time.

 

[chriscoli]

I've often wondered if there's a difference between wild strains of ich and the stuff we get from other hobbyists or the pets store that may have been around in a more "domesticated" situation.

Do you notice the stuff that comes in on your wild fish to be the same or worse than what you might get domestically?

 

[dogofwar]

Not sure if it's the ich or the fishes' reaction to it but it's rough once they get it. I've really tried to prevent it, as much as possible.

Of course I jinxed myself...and boiled a big Gymnogeo and some Hisonotus last night In order to defeat the ich, I had them temp up to 86-88. Heater stuck and it got much hotter... C'est la vie!

Matt

I've often wondered if there's a difference between wild strains of ich and the stuff we get from other hobbyists or the pets store that may have been around in a more "domesticated" situation.

Do you notice the stuff that comes in on your wild fish to be the same or worse than what you might get domestically?

 

[chriscoli]

Aw, sorry!

 

[dogofwar]

It was bound to happen. Heaters are the Achilles Heel of fishkeeping!

Matt

Aw, sorry!

 

[CichlidAddict]

I always prefer Malachite Green to salt and heat treatment. MG is much easier to apply and effective. I found that Cichlids are very tolerant of MG, and MG is only harsh to pathogens and sensitive fish like clown loaches or tetras. Even my scaleless Ancistrus are not bothered by MG. Using heat is not the safest treatment as it needs diligent monitoring to avoid over shooting, and some fish just aren't tolerant to elevated temperature even in mid 80s. I am surprised that sub-tropical fish from Uruguay can tolerate high temperature.

 

[dogofwar]

I've had mixed success with MG in the past with quarantining fish from Uruguay. Heat - and salt, lots of salt - have seemed to prevent ich in most of my quarantine tanks (knock on wood).

Adding MG makes it harder to see into the tank(s) and has weird affects on some catfish (there were also some catfish in the tanks). So I've gone with heat and salt as the primary preventative treatment...and so far haven't needed any MG or meds (beyond herbals).

Uruguay is indeed sub-tropical but the fish live in a wide range of temperatures - 40s or 50s in the winter to 90s in the summer, depending on location. They need the cool-down but they can live - quite happily - in warm water for the summer months.

I added an extra air stone to the tank that I was treating for ich (for any number of reasons). Everything looked like it was working well when I checked before bed. Heater stuck and it was really hot in there. A (hopefully ich free) Hisonotus cf. aky amazingly survived and is still alive...the others and a big Gymnogeo not so much.

Matt

I always prefer Malachite Green to salt and heat treatment. MG is much easier to apply and effective. I found that Cichlids are very tolerant of MG, and MG is only harsh to pathogens and sensitive fish like clown loaches or tetras. Even my scaleless Ancistrus are not bothered by MG. Using heat is not the safest treatment as it needs diligent monitoring to avoid over shooting, and some fish just aren't tolerant to elevated temperature even in mid 80s. I am surprised that sub-tropical fish from Uruguay can tolerate high temperature.

 

[b considine]

It was bound to happen. Heaters are the Achilles Heel of fishkeeping

Yes, they are. I've got one I'm watching right now.

Christine,

You'd think the "domesticated" ich would be more resilient to meds than wilds strains. Much like human superbugs.

Blaise

 

[dogofwar]

I think it's more the vulnerability of the fish vs. the strain of ich. Especially for larger Gymnogeos (and tetras), which I've found are most susceptible, it's a long, stressful journey from the wild to quarantine. I'd assume that none of the fish involved have ever had ich before so any immunity that they might have is quite low.

If they get ich, it's hard for them to kick it. Much better to prevent them from getting it in the first place...but easier said than done.

The other part of my quarantine process is being VERY careful with cross contamination. I did water changes on all of my other tanks before my quarantine ones. And dipped anything that touched a quarantine tank in net soak (e.g. siphons) between tanks.

Matt

Yes, they are. I've got one I'm watching right now.

Christine,

You'd think the "domesticated" ich would be more resilient to meds than wilds strains. Much like human superbugs.

Blaise

 

[lkelly]

They Gymno was probably thinking, "I was dragged all the way from Uruguay, lived in buckets, bags, and cardboard boxes, inspected by customs officials, dropped in a timeshare condo in Maryland that quickly became a saltwater excursion, finally boiled alive, and I didn't even get a stupid t-shirt!"

Just kidding, Matt. It seems like you are taking really sound precautions and are just battling things outside your control. I can't imagine what fish importers do on a weekly/monthly basis. I hope enough of your other livestock make it.

 

[dogofwar]

Actually nearly all of them have made it - and will make it.

This is one tank out of about 10...and it only had 1 Gymnogeo (albeit a nice big male one) and handful of Hisonotus in it.

Had a really nice pike jump out as well. Made this long journey only to find a small space between the tank and hood and jump out.

Probably only lost about 15 fish total out of ~ 150 (3 Gymnogeos - 1 DOA, 1 boiled, 1 aggression; 4-5 Hisonotus - 3 boiled, 1-2 tiny fish DOA, a couple of scotti pikes - 1 jumper, 1 aggression, and a few tiny livebearers - who knows).

Keep your fingers crossed that the rest will get their strength back and live, as most of the fish I've brought back in the past have, long lives in the relative comfort of my fishroom!

Commercial exporters deal in literally thousands of fish. I'd assume that losses are shocking and primarily occur prior to export. We're collecting a handful or fewer of fish of each type (very small quantities) and exporting them basically the same week they're caught. A loss of two really adds up if you've only got a pair or trio of, for example, a kind of Geo or Australoheros...

Matt

They Gymno was probably thinking, "I was dragged all the way from Uruguay, lived in buckets, bags, and cardboard boxes, inspected by customs officials, dropped in a timeshare condo in Maryland that quickly became a saltwater excursion, finally boiled alive, and I didn't even get a stupid t-shirt!"

Just kidding, Matt. It seems like you are taking really sound precautions and are just battling things outside your control. I can't imagine what fish importers do on a weekly/monthly basis. I hope enough of your other livestock make it.

 

[lkelly]

Some of those fish looked amazing in the photos I saw on FB. The pikes especially.

I didn't realize you brought back close to 150. What a haul!

 

[dogofwar]

It's pretty mind-blowing stuff!

Packing out all of those fish with the constraints of space (suitcases) and weight (50 lbs total weight per), including bringing back some geodes / rocks, clothes, nets...and, of course, some Grappa Miel liquor, is a challenge.

Matt

Some of those fish looked amazing in the photos I saw on FB. The pikes especially.

I didn't realize you brought back close to 150. What a haul!

 

[lkelly]

It's pretty mind-blowing stuff!

Packing out all of those fish with the constraints of space (suitcases) and weight (50 lbs total weight per), including bringing back some geodes / rocks, clothes, nets...and, of course, some Grappa Miel liquor, is a challenge.

Matt

I guess you have explored the possibility of transporting the fish in Grappa Miel liquor.

 

[dogofwar]

I've experimented in dosages that prevent (and cause) ich in humans

Never stopped to take pictures but the process of 6 people packing out fish (and luggage) to go home is pretty crazy. Bagging and divvying up fish, making sure everything is properly labeled, bagging everything properly with oxygen, not taking too many of a particular category or species, remembering to take enough, catching them out of vats and bins...the day goes by in a flash!

Matt

I guess you have explored the possibility of transporting the fish in Grappa Miel liquor.

 

[dogofwar]

Cleared out a 4' 55g for a group of balzanii and some pikes... plan to move them from their 29g quarantine tank to the bigger one this week!

Matt