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Sick fish! - yellow tail

Discussion in 'Food, Water & Health' started by Scorp1us, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Scorp1us

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    #1 Scorp1us, Jul 26, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
    I came home today to find this fish vertical. Another one looks like he has a coating. Another "shiny" eye. (He's to the right). It only seems to be my yellow tails.

    What is it?

    Also, his tail and fin looked like it is damaged, even under the scales it's discolored.

    EDIT: Added a pic of the tail. Sorry it's blurry.

    12070115.jpg

    12070118.jpg
     
  2. Scorp1us

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    Ok now both my largest fish - the yellow tails - are doing it. the big guy was trying to scratch himself.

    ****, I lost a yellow tail!

    So far it's only the yellow tails.
     
  3. Tony

    Tony Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
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    Where are these fish on the pecking order in the tank? On the low end?
     
  4. Scorp1us

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    Apex.

    So the vertical one is upside down on the bottom of the tank now. Still alive though.
     
  5. hollyfish2000

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    Check your parameters for good measure. Make sure you've got 0 nitrite and ammonia. Then check nitrate to see if it's a reasonable place, just to be sure. And check temp, too.

    Assuming you've not added any fish lately and assuming you haven't got a disease elsewhere that you transfered to this tank, you have to figure aggression. Pull the injured/hurt fish and put in a QT hospital tank and take it from there. Sometimes the fish on the top of the heap suddenly get beat to hell. I almost lost my dom ruby red once when all of a sudden the second in a command got a bee in his bonnet.
     
  6. Scorp1us

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    But why would it be all my Yellow tails at once? Do you think the powder blues are asserting themselves? The biggest fish is also succumed, and he's much larger than the rest.

    That also doesn't explain why they keep scratching themselves.

    I checked my nitrate+ammonia and it was between 0 and 0.25,

    I just did a 50% water change in the past 1/2 hour.

    The only thing notable was I was gone for 3 days, no feeding, but there are plants. Everyone was alive and well when I got back.

    Last introduction was about a month ago, of java moss.
    prior to that, many months for my petricolas.
     
  7. Tony

    Tony Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
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    Stress from aggression (or other factors) is a major contributor to sickness.

    The two readings should be separate.... nitrates will always be higher than that and ammonia should be zero. Ammonia or nitrites being above zero will cause scratching and contribute to sickness.
     
  8. hollyfish2000

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    Yes, all your "yellow tails" i.e. p. acei, I believe, could be targeted by more aggressive fish. Acei are not aggressive, so even if they are the largest fish in the tank that doesn't mean anything. I don't know what your other stocking is. Perhaps you can list it here and mbuna experts can pick out the likely aggressor.
     
  9. Scorp1us

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    - 4 Yellow Tail Acei [now 3, 2 are fighting for life] (biggest fish int he tank)
    - 4 Afra Cobue
    - 4 Pseudotropheus Demasoni
    - 2 Afra White Top Hara
    - 2 Red Zebra
    - 6 Cobalt Zebra
    - 6 Powder Blue
    - 6 Yellow Lab
    - 3 S. Petricola
    - 3 BN Pleco

    I'm worried it's Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia



    12070137.jpg
     
  10. Scorp1us

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    Ok, i think I found the aggressor, but I'm not so sure it's all his doing.
    I have a powder blue that was doing a lot of chasing. I guess he finally reached maturity. He was dancing with another of his kind. He'd make a C shape with his body then vibrate. then the other one would come in and do somethign theyn they'd meet mouth to mouth. I didn't see any sperm or eggs get released tho.

    For now I severely disrupted the tank's layout which should buy me some time I've been working on getting another tank. going. Looks like I'll have to put that into high gear.
     
  11. Tony

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    You've got some rough characters on that list...
     
  12. hollyfish2000

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    Can a mbuna expert give him some ideas of what to remove so he has a more reasonable mix?

    FWIW: The labs and the p. acei are mild mannered and will do fine in a less aggressive tank setting. I've read that four demonsoni won't usually work as they need 12 of their own kind to avoid deaths and spread out the violence. Zebras will cross breed with labs, so you probably want to pull them for that reason alone. I don't know what a "powder blue" is.
     
  13. Tony

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    +1 on removing the red zebras. There is potential for them to hybridize with the blue zebras as well.

    Powder blue may be Ps. socolofi? Not sure either.

    I've never had good luck with cobalt blue zebras. They get real mean and like to sleep around. Like Holly said, either get a bunch more demasoni or you will end up with one.

    How big is the tank?
     
  14. Scorp1us

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    120g.

    I got them from a private person that had all of them in a tank to start with, minus the demasoni. I mentioned aggression and he said he never had a problem so long as he raised them together.

    I have a 30g that I am setting up at work. It'd be a help on which ones I should transplant to it. I plan on getting more demas regardless, just to which tank I add them...

    I wouldn't mind purple zebras...

    Ps. socolofi are my "powder blue"
     
  15. hollyfish2000

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    I just looooove fish keepers who say "hey, I've never had a problem with aggression before" when the fish are BABIES. Jeepers. They get older and they get bigger and they get meaner and go looking for love. And your previously peaceful tank turns into WWIII. It's our job to monitor our tanks so that if/when that occurs, we intervene -- as you are doing -- to rebalance, restock, rescape, etc. Sometimes we don't intervene fast enough-- I've been there -- but we try to do what we can to keep losses low and give our fish the environment they need/deserve.

    (I agree that with your large tank you've got more latitude, but clearly someone has turned into a meanie!)
     
  16. Scorp1us

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    Oh, well he had several generations... anyway, I definitely think the testosterone has kicked up. I'm now rushing my work tank into commission.
     
  17. ezrk

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    That isn't mating, that is fighting.
     
  18. ezrk

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    More likely bacterial IMO. We have had a few fish wind up looking about like that and it was always IMO from fighting. We would almost never actually see it happen, indeed in a few cases we went to bed thinking things were fine and woke up to find a fish barely able to swim, missing most of its fins and/or lying on the bottom of the tank looking nearly dead.

    We have revived a couple form this state and have lost a couple. We are nursing one back to health atm and our plan for when this happens is now something like this:

    Immediately remove such fish to a hospital tank, keep it reasonably warm (we usually go for 82F or so) and well oxygenated. Cover the tank up so it is dark so the fish feels safe and doesn't get agitated.

    Treat with antibiotics, we use Erythromyacin. We think the fish we lose we lose to secondary infections, we often see septicemia type blood spots through the scales, the fish are lethargic and they universally lose most of their tail fin. The rest of the fins also tend to look ragged.

    Sometimes we combine this with Pimafix and Melafix to try and stop external fungus and infections.

    If one of my fish looked like your picture that is what I would do. I would also be very alert for signs of bloat - notably fish not eating or spitting out feed - and be very quick to Metro the tank (which has virtually no downsides if it is not needed).
     

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