pundamilia macrocephala

[Cichlidiot]

I'm so stoked. A friend of mine in Texas has a breeding group of these beautiful fish. They recently spawned and I am one of the few that will be receiving a small group from him. From what we have been told about this species is that they have not been introduced to the US as of yet. Hopefully I can get a nice group going here on the East coast and share with my fellow addicts. The photos were taken by him of his dominent male.

 

[longstocking]

I think I have seen pictures of this fish before.

Nice fish Good luck with them. I believe they are endangered? Are you going to register them with CARES?

 

[Sonny Disposition]

Do you have any info on them? There isn't much on the Web, other than that they're Victorians. Judging from the egg spots on the male's fin, and from what I learned from reading Darwin's Dreampond, someone in our club--don't remember if it was Richard, or Michael Moore or Francine or Sarah--mentioned in passing to me that a lot of Victorians are nasty.

Other than that, whatever you could tell us about them would be great.

I'm so stoked. A friend of mine in Texas has a breeding group of these beautiful fish. They recently spawned and I am one of the few that will be receiving a small group from him. From what we have been told about this species is that they have not been introduced to the US as of yet. Hopefully I can get a nice group going here on the East coast and share with my fellow addicts. The photos were taken by him of his dominent male.

 

[Cichlidiot]

You may have seen these pics posted on other boards as well. Like most of us Ross belongs to many forums and has posted them there including the ACA. We are both members of the Hill Country Cichlid Club out of San Antonio, Texas. There's not alot of information available as I have searched all over myself. This strain comes from the Python Island region in Tanzania. As you can see in the pics it has no trouble at all backing down a Kyoga Flameback even though much smaller. The Flameback was rehoused for fear of its demise. So yes this one along with other Vics as well can be quite aggresive. You know the saying "Dynamite comes in small packages". Considering the behavior a species only tank is highly recommended. I'm looking forward to observing and learning all I can about these and pass along the knowledge I have gained. Well that and a few fry eventually. First step is getting them here. I'm sure Ross will be registering them with ACA and the HCCC CARES program since they are considered endangered. In all likelyhood I will do the same as I feel it's important to keep these beautiful fish around so that others can enjoy them.

 

[dogofwar]

They look a lot like Astatotilapia nubila.

 

[Sonny Disposition]

Thanks for posting the pictures and for sharing your knowledge. They look like a really nice fish and I hope you have good luck with them.

You may have seen these pics posted on other boards as well. Like most of us Ross belongs to many forums and has posted them there including the ACA. We are both members of the Hill Country Cichlid Club out of San Antonio, Texas. There's not alot of information available as I have searched all over myself. This strain comes from the Python Island region in Tanzania. As you can see in the pics it has no trouble at all backing down a Kyoga Flameback even though much smaller. The Flameback was rehoused for fear of its demise. So yes this one along with other Vics as well can be quite aggresive. You know the saying "Dynamite comes in small packages". Considering the behavior a species only tank is highly recommended. I'm looking forward to observing and learning all I can about these and pass along the knowledge I have gained. Well that and a few fry eventually. First step is getting them here. I'm sure Ross will be registering them with ACA and the HCCC CARES program since they are considered endangered. In all likelyhood I will do the same as I feel it's important to keep these beautiful fish around so that others can enjoy them.

 

[George]

They look a lot like Astatotilapia nubila.

I have to agree Mat. This is the same fish. It really seems the Victorians are a mixed up bunch. Just wait till Kullander gets them in his sights. The current mess will seem stable.

I picked up a pair of these at the ACA in Atlanta. I got them through a fellow named Lew Carbone who is big into Victorians. Their common name is Finebar Scrapers. He has sold many at the OCA Extravaganzas in Cleveland. They really aren't that rare. Like most, they are all but gone from Victoria but supposedly fairly common in some of the smaller auxiliary lakes. They are very nice looking fish, well at least the males.

There were three but one of the females was dead when I bought them. The pair did OK when I got them home but there was good news/bad news. Eventually (yes the male Haps are pretty much all nasty) killed the female. The good news is I intervened twice and saved two batches of fry. I have 30 or 40 and will be putting some in our next auction.

These are supposed to be Cichlids. Males, like many Africans, just eat fry. Cichlids are supposed to care for their fry. Maybe the females are Cichlids and the males are characins? Who knows? Such a dilemma.

I plan to stick with my SAs. The males just kill females, not babies. What's wrong with that?

George

 

[Cichlidiot]

I've talked with a few others and they say the two are different. I agree I also see a very strong resemblance. Maybe I'll hold off until I know exactly what I'm getting.

 

[George]

I've talked with a few others and they say the two are different. I agree I also see a very strong resemblance. Maybe I'll hold off until I know exactly what I'm getting.

That's funny. Who are the few others? How will you "know exactly what I'm getting"? Consult the swammy?

George

 

[dogofwar]

Who are the few others?

Those guys in the fake beards trying to scare the castaways off of the Lost island.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Matt

 

[Cichlidiot]

The few others belong to the cichlid club I belong to in Texas as well. You say they are the same, they say they are different. It's obvious the identity of this species has been contested in the field for awhile. I'll be the first to admit that I have little knowledge of Vics so I'm looking for any opportunity to learn as much as I can. Is your sarcasm the usual way you treat others that have a questionable species?

That's funny. Who are the few others? How will you "know exactly what I'm getting"? Consult the swammy?

George

 

[George]

Whoa, backup. Maybe I sounded other than I meant. I have this fish and about 40 1 to 2 inch fry. I have seen both names and have had people tell me they are synonyms. These were knowledgeable people but that still doesn't solve the problem. I was only hoping you had real info and hoping you would share it. It appears you are in the same boat I am.

Like you, I do not know enough about these fish to know if there are two different fish or two names for the same fish. I can tell you that I have been digging for more than six months and having observed mine as well as the pictures, they look identical. Where I have found sketchy habitat info they also appear to be the same. As you said, you do not have to come to a conclusion and I must admit I too still have doubts. We will probably never know.

Sorry if you were insulted. It just seemed you might know something you didn't want to share. They are very nice fish in any case and I hope your friend gets you some.

George

 

[dogofwar]

From the Cichlid Room Companion:

Astatotilapia nubila
Original description:

• <LI type=disc>As Tilapia nubila.
• Boulenger, G. A.; 1906; "Descriptions of new fishes discovered by Mr E. Degen in Lake Victoria"; Annals and Magazine of Natural History; (ser. 7) 17; pp. 433-452.
• Synonyms: Haplochromis centropristoides victorianus Borodin, 1936, with type locality at Ukerewe Island, Lake Victoria. Determiner: Trewavas, 1946.

Pundamilia macrocephala
Original description:
As Pundamilia macrocephala.

• Seehausen, Ole & E. Lippitsch, N. Bouton and H. Zwennes; 1998; "Mbipi, the rock-dwelling cichlids of Lake Victoria: description of three new genera and fifteen new species"; Ichthyological Explorations of Freshwaters; pp. 129-228.

 

[longstocking]

Look at the egg spots. They are a different color.

But seriously... I'm no vic expert. So take it with a grain of salt. I also think the body is a bit shallower. But this could be just the pictures.

 

[Cichlidiot]

It will be at least a month before the fry are ready to ship this way. George are you willing to part with some of your fry? What I'm thinking is raising both, separate tanks of course, and do a side by side comparison. If I'm sent enough fry I'll be more then happy to do the same for you. We can then compare notes and go from there. My friends in the HCCC are also very knowledgeable with Vics but I still have that lingering doubt.

 

[Cichlidiot]

The more I look the more I am seeing the differences. The body shape, egg spot difference as mentioned previously. It appears a tad bit more "robust" to me. It seems every day I see a little bit more. It's almost like yesterday I had neons and was happy with it. Its funny how this "hobby" gets under your skin.

 

[deadman]

greetings from texas, the macrocephala are mine. they have been registered with aca caers. an article will come out in several accosiation magazines soon. i included much about them.

in obtaining these as as they grew i knew that the first thing that would be said is that they are nublia. i would encourage you all to do an indepth study of the nublia and its history here in the us.
here is a little to help you all get started.

Astatotilapia nubilus we have in the hobby is not Astatotilapia nubilus. Elizabeth Lippitsh made species description on three similarly colored but distinct fish that were previously known as A. nubilus. In the 15 or so years that Les has spent trogging around Lake Victoria, he was never able to find the exact fish that Greenwood called Astatotilapia nubilus.

i have had several highly respected folks take a look at them this is one of the responces,
"your macrocephala has the classic pundamilia body shape as well at the indentation in the forhead slope just before the premaxillary. You can see this in Lithochromis and Mbipia too. This does not occur in Astatotilapia."
"your macrocephala has the classic pundamilia body shape as well at the indentation in the forhead slope just before the premaxillary. You can see this in Lithochromis and Mbipia too. This does not occur in Astatotilapia."
the female to this species was compared with the macrocephala that are currently being kept in france and it has been determined as well that she is a match. she looks nothing like the so called nubia female here in the states.

the female of the species.

here are a few more pictures for you all to enjoy.

 

[longstocking]

I'm curious who the quote was from?

 

[deadman]

macrocephala

greetings from north texas, i answer to deadman.
its nice to see great conversation going on about my fish. i knew that when they started to grow out that the first thing i would hear is that they are, what we call nublia. while there are similar traits they are not the same fish. i hope that you all do some looking into the nublia, or better stated what is called nublia here in the states. ill adress this later. there are two groups of these here in the states they came in the same shipment and it was divided, so that is sudden loss of them happened tey would still be here. they are not wild caught.

they have been registered with the aca, and hccc, i have three batches of fry growing out at this time. there will be articles comming out in various publications soon.

i have had some of the best and well known victorian experts here and abroad take a look at the macrocephala, and even challenged them on the nublia, this is one of the responces i recieved.

"there are quite a few fish that have a similar color pattern to yours. Interestingly enough, Astatotilapia nubilus we have in the hobby is not Astatotilapia nubilus. Elizabeth Lippitsh made species description on three similarly colored but distinct fish that were previously known as A. nubilus. In the 15 or so years that Les has spent trogging around Lake Victoria, he was never able to find the exact fish that Greenwood called Astatotilapia nubilus. Archived somewhere I have save a email conversation between Les and I around 1999 when we talked about nubilus."
your macrocephala has the classic pundamilia body shape as well at the indentation in the forhead slope just before the premaxillary. You can see this in Lithochromis and Mbipia too. This does not occur in Astatotilapia.

"I have not had any hands on experience with Pundamilia macrocephala so you probably know more about the fish than I do. I can only tell you that based on what is was suppose to be, and Ole's description, along with pictures that are a match, I'm fairly certain you have the right species."

here are a few more pics for you all to enjoy.
oh yes the female to this species looks nothing like that of what is called a. nublis.

the female

 

[Cichlidiot]

Which quote? The actual owner of these fish is now a new member and is waiting for mod approval for his posts to show up.

I'm curious who the quote was from?