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Need some help (generator or other ideas)

TovMahal

Members
I just found out Pepco is going to shut my power off for 15 hours on Thursday night. Anyone have a generator in the DC area to help me keep my filters and heaters up and running?

If you can drop it off all the better because I am not sure when I am going to have time between now and then to get anywhere before 9 or 10p.




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dogofwar

CCA Members
+1 on what Matt C said.

A couple of battery operated air pumps will more than fine. Just keep the tanks dark and warm...

Matt
 

TovMahal

Members
Thanks. One other question what about my canister filter (an XP-3)? I just cleaned it this weekend, but how long can it stay off before the BB dies off? Should I take any precautions before restarting the filters?






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mchambers

Former CCA member
If you just cleaned it, it should be fine, but if you want to be cautious, you could open it up while the power is off, so there is some oxygen getting in to the biomedia. If your biomedia is in a bag or basket, you could put that in your tank.

If you want to be really cautious, before you restart, empty the canister and refill it with dechlorinated water.

As Neut observed in a post recently, the beneficial microbes (there's some debate as to whether they are bacteria or archaea) are not really that fragile. I think plenty will survive the outage.
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
Yes - plenty of the bacteria will survive. Couldn't hurt to open it and dump out the fetid water / refill with tank water (or dechlorinated tap) prior to restarting...

Matt
 

JLW

CCA Members
Not only are the bacteria fairly resilient, they're also really quick to reproduce in the filter. Your bacterial doubling time is in the ball park of 8-10 minutes, under ideal circumstances. So, even if you assume that circumstances suck, and it's 15 minutes, and you lost 99.9% of the bacteria... in 15 minutes, you have 0.2%, in 30 minutes, 0.4%, in an hour, 1.6%... in two hours, you're back up to 25% of capacity. In 2.5 hours, you're back at 100% capacity.

The big concern with a canister filter is not the loss of bacteria, which I use collectively to include all appropriate microbes, but the loss of oxygen. When you lose flow, all that gunk continues to rot, and the oxygen levels go down (without fresh water and oxygen entering the unit). It eventually goes anaerobic, and you begin to produce H2Stinky. When the filter resumes function, all that anaerobic gunk flushes into the tank, and not only makes for a really pleasant smell in the house, but can kill your fish. (Technically, it can kill you, too, but the volume in your filter is much too small, unless you were in a very confined space...). This can happen any time you lose power to your filter, even if you just kick the cord. And it can happen pretty quick -- in an hour or so.

The amount of time and amount of sulphurous gas released are going to be a function of the amount of gunk in the filter. If you haven't cleaned it in a while, there's more to decompose, it happens faster, and it is worse -- if, as you did, it's relatively clean, you probably don't really have to worry.

At the very least, I would disconnect the power to the canister filter so that it doesn't come on when the power comes on, and I would then dump the water out of it and refill it once the power returns.

As an aside, as long as the bacteria remain "moist," they'll be fine -- so you can dump the water out for 15 hours and keep it closed.

By the way, whenever power is out, I unplug all of my filters and pumps anyhow. This serves two purposes. One, a lot of the time the power will flicker on and off and on and off and on and off before it comes on and stays on. This can be hard on your motors (as well as your electronics -- it'll burn up a computer). Secondly, sometimes things don't start properly, such as a pump that needs priming, or an impeller that's sticky, and starting them manually, one at a time, gives me the opportunity to make sure that everything is going without just "taking it for granted."
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
Excellent post, Josh!

Not only are the bacteria fairly resilient, they're also really quick to reproduce in the filter. Your bacterial doubling time is in the ball park of 8-10 minutes, under ideal circumstances. So, even if you assume that circumstances suck, and it's 15 minutes, and you lost 99.9% of the bacteria... in 15 minutes, you have 0.2%, in 30 minutes, 0.4%, in an hour, 1.6%... in two hours, you're back up to 25% of capacity. In 2.5 hours, you're back at 100% capacity.

The big concern with a canister filter is not the loss of bacteria, which I use collectively to include all appropriate microbes, but the loss of oxygen. When you lose flow, all that gunk continues to rot, and the oxygen levels go down (without fresh water and oxygen entering the unit). It eventually goes anaerobic, and you begin to produce H2Stinky. When the filter resumes function, all that anaerobic gunk flushes into the tank, and not only makes for a really pleasant smell in the house, but can kill your fish. (Technically, it can kill you, too, but the volume in your filter is much too small, unless you were in a very confined space...). This can happen any time you lose power to your filter, even if you just kick the cord. And it can happen pretty quick -- in an hour or so.

The amount of time and amount of sulphurous gas released are going to be a function of the amount of gunk in the filter. If you haven't cleaned it in a while, there's more to decompose, it happens faster, and it is worse -- if, as you did, it's relatively clean, you probably don't really have to worry.

At the very least, I would disconnect the power to the canister filter so that it doesn't come on when the power comes on, and I would then dump the water out of it and refill it once the power returns.

As an aside, as long as the bacteria remain "moist," they'll be fine -- so you can dump the water out for 15 hours and keep it closed.

By the way, whenever power is out, I unplug all of my filters and pumps anyhow. This serves two purposes. One, a lot of the time the power will flicker on and off and on and off and on and off before it comes on and stays on. This can be hard on your motors (as well as your electronics -- it'll burn up a computer). Secondly, sometimes things don't start properly, such as a pump that needs priming, or an impeller that's sticky, and starting them manually, one at a time, gives me the opportunity to make sure that everything is going without just "taking it for granted."
 

chriscoli

Administrator
I must respectfully disagree on a few points, Josh.

The 20 minute doubling time so often quoted in biology texts really only applies to lab-pet versions of E. coli (usually strain K-12). These strains have been handed from lab to lab for so long under the conditions of a petri dish that this has become their preferred home and they have been under selective pressure to reproduce quickly under ideal conditions.

"Wild" bacteria are much different. For many of the easier environmental bacteria, I'd be happy with a doubling time of a few hours to 24 hours, which is still pretty quick considering that there are a lot of bacteria/archaea out there that reproduce much slower than that (weeks to years).

What you are observing when a filter recovers, though, is most likely the bacteria going from a resting to an active state. When conditions are not favorable, they'll shut down a lot of their unnecessary cellular machinery to conserve resources. When conditions are good again, they'll turn the machinery back on and start producing the enzymes and other factors that help them do what they do best. That is a process that can take minutes or hours to ramp back up depending on the complexity of the proteins and enzymatic pathways involved. And remember, we're not talking about one type of bacterium in your filters....there are many. It takes a whole consortium of participants to make our biofilters run.

Otherwise, I agree with all of your other points.
 

TovMahal

Members
Thanks everyone. I have a bunch of battery operated air pumps being delivered today. However it appears the power outage will be delayed until tomorrow night because of inclement weather.

Either way I should know if the fish survived by the meeting.

Thanks again.


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TovMahal

Members
Thanks to all the advice it looks like everyone survived the outage.

For the canister, I opened it up and was able to get a couple of air stone in the corners about 1/3 of the way down and that seemed to keep it oxygenated enough.

Thanks again, see you all on Saturday.

Dan


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In addition to other actions suggested, in preparation for the shut down, I would do a WC in all tanks and feed minimally, or not at all, to minimize biochemical oxygen demand.
 
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