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New and Need help.

K

Klown

Members
Hey everyone, I'm new to the world of cichlid tanks. I've had other fish tanks but nothing to big. I now have a 55g tank with 7 cichlids (I want a lot more but needed a couple just to get started) and a pleco. They are all medium in size. I have (1) Albino Tiger, (1) Tiger, (1) Jack Dempsi, (1) Blood Parrot, (1) Red Devil, and (2) "Assorted" per what PetSmart calls them. They are all growing and doing well.

My problem is no matter what I do I can't seem to get the Ammonia level under control. The fish are doing great, but when I check the ammonia level its between 2.0-4.0 on my scale. I've been adding Ammo Lock and followed the directions, I've also done a 20% water change.

I'm using a QuiteFlo 55/75 right now, but later today I will be picking up a Fluval 405 or 406 which ever they have in stock. Is it just that my filtration is not good enough to handle these fish?

Please help with any advice on anything really but how to handle the Ammonia level is number 1 right now.
 
FormulatedFire

FormulatedFire

Members
Your filtration isn't enough for such messy eaters. Also those fish won't work together in a 55 for life. It may work for awhile since they are juveniles I'm assuming. Did you properly cycle the tank before adding fish? I would start doing 50% water changes since ammonia that high will cause health issues for your fish. What are your plans for getting a bigger tank for all of them?

As far as filtration I'd pick up two aquaclear 110s and a rena cannister


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K

Klown

Members
I did properly cycle the tank for almost 3 weeks prior to getting fish. I will be getting a better filtration system today and with it I will do a 50% water change like you suggested. As far as plans for the fish right now, none... Why would they not work together? If need be, I'm not upposed to getting another tank down the line. Maybe something for another room. They are all around the 3 inch mark right now.

Will the Fluval 405/406 be good enough? I figured since it is a 100g filter it should work a lot better.
 
Andrewtfw

Andrewtfw

Global Moderators
The size and levels of aggression due to territorial requirements are why they won't work in the long run.
How did you cycle without fish (used sponge, add ammonia)? Two or three fish to start with would have been better than seven but no going back now.
I would add the fluval or a 110 but that will only help for a while. Also feed a small amount once daily or even every other day until the ammonia and nitrite levels are zero.

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FormulatedFire

FormulatedFire

Members
All of the fish you've listed will grow to the sizes listed below.

Red Devil - 12"+
Jack Dempsey - 10"+
Tiger and Albino Oscar - 12"
Blood Parrot - 8"+

And I'm going to go out on a limb as say the "assorted" are Africans, which will not work at all with the CA/SA cichlids listed above. Oscars grow extremely fast and with the dimensions of your 55 being 48" x 13" they will barely have room to turn in less than a year. After factoring in size think about how cramped those fish will be and how much aggression you'll have. If your two Oscars are 12" they take up half your tank right there without even thinking about the other 5 fish. I would consider rethinking your stocking list or upgrading to a much larger tank if you'd wish to keep them all.
 
K

Klown

Members
Thanks for all the help! Ignorance sucks sometimes and I have to say I definately didn't do my research. I saw something "shiny" as my wife says and pounced. I cycled the tank using some crap fish... I'm not to sure what they were but I had like 20 of them in there. I also added some bacteria additives they suggested at the local fish store (not petsmart, but an actual aquarium store).

So If I want to keep my big 5 as you have pointed out their sizes. What size tank will work for them in the future? Guessing if they last that long with these ammonia levels...
 
FormulatedFire

FormulatedFire

Members
In my a opinion a 125g 72" x 18" would be a minimum, and filtration to match that. I'm a big fan of aquaclear HOB filters. If you went to the 125 I'd suggest 4 ac110 and a cannister or two. Some will say it's to much but the more filtration the better when it's comes to big cichlids. Which yours will be in the future.


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dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Definitely too many fish...or at least fish that will get too big for a 55g in short order.

Your ammonia problems are a reflection of the bioload in the tank and the fact that there aren't enough nitrifying bacteria to keep up (i.e. the tank's not "cycled").

Do a big water change - say 70%...feed sparingly...and (if possible) get some filter material, a sponge filter or media from a friend who has a "cycled" tank. I'm not familiar with all of the "insta cycle" potions to know if any of them work.

Good luck and glad you found us!
Matt
 
Shane

Shane

Members
You are making all the same mistakes most of us did when we started out. Water changes are what will save your fish in the short term. I would recommend an immediate 50% change followed by 25% changes every day for the next week. When you do a really large water change (50% or above) make sure you add the new water back to the tank slowly. Ideally over several hours. Your nitrifying bacteria will eventually catch up. As others have pointed out you'll need to get rid of most of your fish as they either are incompatible, require different types of water, or will simply grow too big for a 55.
-Shane
 
jonclark96

jonclark96

Past CCA President
Shane said:
You are making all the same mistakes most of us did when we started out. Water changes are what will save your fish in the short term. I would recommend an immediate 50% change followed by 25% changes every day for the next week. When you do a really large water change (50% or above) make sure you add the new water back to the tank slowly. Ideally over several hours. Your nitrifying bacteria will eventually catch up. As others have pointed out you'll need to get rid of most of your fish as they either are incompatible, require different types of water, or will simply grow too big for a 55.
-Shane
Click to expand...

Shane:

All good advice, although I have never heard about adding the water back to the tank slowly. What is the benefit of doing it this way?
 
Shane

Shane

Members
Jon,
Many aquarists think the reason for refilling slowly is to let the two water temperatures equalize. This can be a good reason, but only if the two temperatures are drastically different. The three main reasons are really to avoid the potential for pH shock, chloramine poisoning, and ammonia poisoning.

pH shock, aka acidosis, can occur in a cycling tank very easily as the abnormally high levels of waste in these systems can cause significant pH swings. In places with soft water (i.e. low KH, so the water has little pH buffering capacity) I have seen newly set up tanks quickly drop to a pH as low as 4. If the tap water has a pH of 7 and one conducts a large water change quickly, many fishes will not survive. Keep in mind that pH is logarithmic, so a change in pH from 7.5 to 6.5 represents a change in acidity of 10 times, while a change from 7.5 to 5.5 means the water is 100 times more acidic!

Chloramine poisoning is another serious risk. Trust me, I nuked one of my own tanks a few weeks ago even though I should know better. Chloramine is very poisonous to fish and can literally kill in minutes. The symptons happen minutes after a water change when the fish start darting about the tank, often spinning crazily out of control. They then lay on the botton, have a few convulsions, and are gone. A slow refill ensures that your water conditioner has plenty of time to neutralize the incoming chloramine from the tapwater before it reaches anything approaching a lethal level.

Ammonia poisoning. Chloramine is a derivitive of ammonia. Your water conditioner breaks down chloramine by splitting the chlorine molecule and releasing the ammonia. This is why good water conditioners include both a dechlorinating agent and an ammonia neutralizer. However, that ammonia neutralizer needs time to work. Imagine what can happen in a new tank with high ammonia levels if the aquarist performes a 60% water changes, dumps in water conditioner, and now adds to the tank all the ammonia freed from the chloramine. While the ammonia spike this casues may only last a few minutes, at high enough levels it can cause an instant tank wipe out.

-Shane
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
You've gotten some excellent suggestions. I don't know anything about the filter you're using now, but if you're changing out the filter media (such as by replacing the cartridge), or washing it in tap water, you could be getting rid of most of the beneficial microbes that break down the ammonia and nitrates, in essence restarting your cycle.
 
K

Klown

Members
New Fluval 406 installed and running less than 24 hours. Ammo level dropped from 3.0 down to 1.0. Water clarity is getting even better. Im not feeding for 2 days (ill feed tomorrow) abd we will see what happens.


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FormulatedFire

FormulatedFire

Members
Your 3D backround post said this tank was setup a week and a half ago. If that's accurate then your mid cycle which is why your ammonia is high. If you want to keep your tank livable for fish I'd go with daily water changes until your cycle starts to come to an end.


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Hawkman2000

Hawkman2000

Members
A 55 is way to small for that many fish (not that I don't do a little over stocking myself). Also, it sounds like you have a mix of new world and old world cichlids. Not the best idea. They live in different water parameters. Also, the Oscars, JD, and the Red Devil will tear the "assorted Cichlids" to pieces, then turn on each other. A 55 is actually a bit to small for just the 2 Oscars. Not that it wouldn't work.
 
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