Sick Cardinals

[Andrewtfw]

I just bought a bunch of cardinal tetras the other day. Last night, I noticed two dead and three with a pale coloration in the form of a vertical bar before the base of the tail. Those three are now dead. Has anyone had luck treating for this? Is this the "neon tetra disease, in which I've read there is no cure? Please advise if you have had experience with this.

Thanks.

 

[Becca]

It sounds like it could be, thoughit usually takes longer to kill them.

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[Localzoo]

Possibly bacterial infection mixed with stress. I'm new to keeping cardinals.
What's your ph, acidity, temp,
Also if you know your water conductivity (salts etc)


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[Andrewtfw]

I'm not new to cardinals. I lost a large group when my com tank emptied into the aquarium a while back. Water quality is not the cause. I have other cardinals and tetras in the tank. The tank gets a 50% change weekly. The co2 drop checker is reading a near neutral ph. I saw two cardinals presenting symptoms as I let them out of the bag. I should have quarantined them all... but I didn't.

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[Localzoo]

I'm not new to cardinals. I lost a large group when my com tank emptied into the aquarium a while back. Water quality is not the cause. I have other cardinals and tetras in the tank. The tank gets a 50% change weekly. The co2 drop checker is reading a near neutral ph. I saw two cardinals presenting symptoms as I let them out of the bag. I should have quarantined them all... but I didn't.

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Def a good rule with cardinals or any new fish. Sorry to hear just keep an eye on the other fish


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[Localzoo]

How long were they in transport/in the bag? How's their breathing? Sorry I know your not a newbie but the simple thinks sometimes get overlooked.


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[Andrewtfw]

How long were they in transport/in the bag? How's their breathing? Sorry I know your not a newbie but the simple thinks sometimes get overlooked.


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Transported for an hour in a double bag containing oxygen. Breathing is fine. Last time I encountered this, same thing happened, though I quarantined those cardinals. Only seems to be a problem for them.

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[Localzoo]

Transported for an hour in a double bag containing oxygen. Breathing is fine. Last time I encountered this, same thing happened, though I quarantined those cardinals. Only seems to be a problem for them.

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Weird sucks about the cardinals but glad the others in the tank are ok



Fake neon tetra disease or columnaris?


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[chriscoli]

I'd be surprised if that's how columnaris presents.

 

[Andrewtfw]

I'd be surprised if that's how columnaris presents.

Not columnaris. Those presenting are now all dead. 10 remain. They look okay, at least for now.

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[Localzoo]

My first thought was bacterial infection bc of the symptoms. I read an article a few days ago...

Full article Columnaris Disease
by Dougall Stewart BSc. (Hons)

fish that were infected with F. columnare, the sequence of visible physical symptoms included slight swellings at the site of infection (infection was achieved by intramuscular injection of simple contact infection), which subsequently developed into a white/blanched patch. As the infection progressed, in the more virulent strains, the fish began swimming at the water surface. Shortly before death, the fish lost their ability to remain at the surface and became motionless, lying on their sides on the floor of the aquarium. AJS1 was the most virulent strain with acute mortality occurring 10 hours post-infection.


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[JLW]

Cardinals and Neons are so touchy, especially in our water, no matter what you do to it.

Without seeing the fish, hard to offer a diagnosis, and it sounds moot now. NTD, which can effect almost any species of fish, usually shows itself as parts of coloured flesh turning translucent.

 

[Andrewtfw]

Cardinals and Neons are so touchy, especially in our water, no matter what you do to it.

Without seeing the fish, hard to offer a diagnosis, and it sounds moot now. NTD, which can effect almost any species of fish, usually shows itself as parts of coloured flesh turning translucent.

Agreed. It is presenting as NTD, and could be one of the more aggressive forms of columnaris. Regardless, the damage is done. Fortunately, the other fish continue to appear fine.

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[mab]

If you really think it is NTD it is highly contagious. More than likely if you didn't quarantine you'll lose all fish in the tank. You can try a combination of the antibiotics furan-2 and kanamycin administered together. Or try a medicated fish bath (using methylene blue or potassium permanganate and salt),http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columnaris#cite_note-3 as a first step if you want to try something else, as well lowering the aquarium temperature to 75°F as high temps speed up the spread. I lost a whole school of 50 plus neons to NTD. I discovered afterward that vendor knew fish were infected. You may have to totally sanitize the tank after destroying everything in it as I did.

 

[Andrewtfw]

Good to know, though not good. I will cross my fingers and hope it is not NTD. In the mean time, I will pull the remaining cardinals to a quarantine tank. I'll update this thread if anything worsens or improves.

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[JLW]

The nice thing about Neon Tetra Disease is how it is spread. The fish have to ingest it. If you're really good about removing dead fish, it *may* not spread.

The really bad thing is that it is virtually uncureable.

 

[msjinkzd]

i have seen this with cardinals/tetras, i dont think its neon tetra disease. Usually what you are describing occurs with fresh imports, and it resolves within a couple of days. I really think its generally ammonia burn/stress related and bacterial in nature.
Generally neon tetra disease has additional symptoms, some of which are behavioral as well.