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240 gall Reef to Cichlid

chris_todd

chris_todd

Members
gliebig said:
So I was reading up on some different species today and I was like - mbunas, yeah I'll do those, then I looked at peacocks and I thought maybe these, then I looked at haplochromines and those look sweet too. :eek:
I don't know what to do. How would you guys stock this tank? Is it possible to do all males since I'm not interested in them doinking?:wub:
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Yeah, it's tough to choose, isn't it? :) They're all so pretty...

Someone more expert than me should give you more details, but I think the short is answers are:
1) Yes, you can do all-male tanks (in many ways, this can be preferable, and lets you mix multiple species from the same genus without fear of creating hybrids)
2) You *can* combine mbuna, peacocks, and haps in the same tank, but it can be tricky; you need to pick the right species, and perhaps the right size of each species, and you can still have challenges.

The order of aggression is usually listed mbuna > haps > peacocks, so many folks will combine less agressive mbuna with bigger/more agressive haps, or combine peaceful haps with peacocks. A few people (Tony is a good example) combine all three in one big overstocked tank, but you do need to choose carefully, and it may not be an appropriate approach for someone new to Malawi cichlids. But Tony and more experienced folks should definitely chime in, I'm still learning about combining them (I have one exclusively mbuna tank and one peacock/hap tank).
 
cmcpart0422

cmcpart0422

Members
I just have too add I love the location of your tank. I would give anything to have a place to sit and watch my tanks while having a few drinks like that. Cant wait to see what you do with the tank!
 
Tony

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
chris_todd said:
Yeah, it's tough to choose, isn't it? :smile: They're all so pretty...

Someone more expert than me should give you more details, but I think the short is answers are:
1) Yes, you can do all-male tanks (in many ways, this can be preferable, and lets you mix multiple species from the same genus without fear of creating hybrids)
2) You *can* combine mbuna, peacocks, and haps in the same tank, but it can be tricky; you need to pick the right species, and perhaps the right size of each species, and you can still have challenges.

The order of aggression is usually listed mbuna > haps > peacocks, so many folks will combine less agressive mbuna with bigger/more agressive haps, or combine peaceful haps with peacocks. A few people (Tony is a good example) combine all three in one big overstocked tank, but you do need to choose carefully, and it may not be an appropriate approach for someone new to Malawi cichlids. But Tony and more experienced folks should definitely chime in, I'm still learning about combining them (I have one exclusively mbuna tank and one peacock/hap tank).
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch for the kind words, Chris. :)

Greg, it all depends what you want.

As Chris said, if you're looking to combine haps, mbuna and peacocks, you can certainly go that direction, you just need to pick compatible species. With a tank that size, you can go with all males or you can go with multiple groups of different genuses (of relatively same size/temperament).

I'm a bit partial to that idea... 5-6 groups of very different haps/peacocks/mbuna in a huge tank with a huge footprint. Lots of flexing, breeding behavior and babies (though they may get eaten if you don't pull females). If done right, this will keep aggression lower than the all male tank.

If you were to do the groups, depending on the number of species (and size) you wanted to keep, you could keep groups of 1M/3F up to 2M/5-6F) of the following genuses (Running from less aggressive/smaller to more aggressive/larger):

  • Copadichromis (pick one type - viginalis/mloto/azureus/chrysonotus) - Medium sized "Utaka" - open water haps
  • Placidochromis (pick one blue type: electra/phenochilus or Cyrtacara moori) - all are sand dwelling opportunistic feeders/sifters - most medium size, moori get larger
  • Aulonocara stuartgranti - less aggressive peacock genus
  • Otopharynx - smaller hap (6" +/-) genus offering different colors than other haps
  • Aulonocara jacobfreibergi - more aggressive peacocks - note in a tank this size, you could do two groups of peacocks so long as they are very different colors and from different genuses. They *should* not interbreed as the females are pretty easy to tell apart.
  • Protomelas (pick one species: taniolatus/spilonotus/fenestratus) - large (8"+) open water haps - not super aggressive for their size - Great "showpiece" fish.
  • Stigmatochromis (modestus, spirostichtus) - medium-sized predator - nice fish, but generally harder to find
  • Nimbochromis (venustus/johnstoni/livingstoni) - these are large predators (can get up to 1') - I wouldn't do more than a trio and they would be the dominant group (may beat on/eat other fish) - maybe not....

Then you can throw in a couple of groups of mbuna. To be honest, I don't know nearly as much about mbuna as I do haps/peacocks, so the list is limited to more common fish I know/have kept and are less aggressive. (Someone else with more experience, please clarify/add to the list if I am in error) You can keep more aggressive/large mbuna than this, but I would not keep them with the first half of the fish listed above because you will have problems.

  • Labidochromis caeruleus (yellow labs) - great contrasting color, timid, but decent sized and sturdy
  • Pseudotropheus sp. Acei (white tail or yellow tail) slightly more aggressive than the yellow labs, but gentle compared to most mbuna.
  • Metriclima estherae (Red zebra) - bright orange color, not too aggressive
  • Pseudotropheus saulosi - Blue males/yellow female (max out around 4" or so) - do not keep with Acei as they may interbreed.
  • Labeotrropheus (trewavasae or fulleborni) - cool mbuna, can be aggressive, OB patttern, funny mouth - great algae eaters

In my opinion, avoid these groups if you are planning a hap-heavy tank:

  • Pseudotropheus demasoni (Adult males get 3" and may get eaten - super mean for their size)
  • P. polit - they are the devil
  • Melanochromis (autatus, johanni, chipokae) - very mean as well - could be kept with the larger/more aggressive haps above, but you only really ever hear bad stories about them (in groups) outside of a species tank.
  • Pseudotropheus crabro (bumblebee) They get huge (8") for mbuna and mean
  • Large zebras - Huge and mean, even as single males.
  • Also avoid small peacocks (maylandi, kandeense) - they will get overpowered by most of the fish I've listed and the males will not color up. Most smaller lethrinops would also be in this boat.
  • On the opposite end, avoid the giant predator haps - Tyranochromis, Champsochromis, Exochromis, Aristochromis, They get in excess of 12" long and will eat 4" fish.
One note about the mbuna above on the avoid list - most of these fish are the common ones you find at Petco/Petsmart. They are hardy and breed like monsters, so they are the ones Petco sells. Skip the learning curve everyone else went through and avoid fish from the discount "Mixed African" tank.

Anyway, sorry if I went on a rant (slow day at work). Again, it's all up to you. if you were to plan it out and pick 5-6 of the groups above, it would be a fantastic tank, with lots of behavior... not necessarily as colorful as the all male tank, but more fun.

My big tank has some groups of large fish and some single males. While there are groups in the tank, it is not all too well planned out and there isn't much breeding going on.... it's more of an all male tank with some growout groups in it. It is an eye-catcher, but I enjoy watching the breeding groups in the smaller tanks just as much.

There's a link in my signature. Check it out.
 
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gliebig

gliebig

Members
Wow! Thanks for the write up. Man, I wish these fish had easier names. I've got a headache now. ;-)
 
gliebig

gliebig

Members
Guess I can't edit a post. I spent the last hour looking at peacocks online. Are they as colorful in person as they are in the pics?
Do you guys do any tank tours where you visit members tanks to see thier setups?
 
Tony

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
gliebig said:
Guess I can't edit a post. I spent the last hour looking at peacocks online. Are they as colorful in person as they are in the pics?
Do you guys do any tank tours where you visit members tanks to see thier setups?
Click to expand...

Greg,

I live in Gaithersburg and may actually may have a couple of folks over to the house after the meeting for beers. If you make it down to the meeting, I'd be happy to have you over afterwards to check out the tanks.

Currently, I'm running about 30 tanks - 25 or so are from Malawi (including the 150 and 180). I have 5 breeding groups of peacocks (along with about 6 other varieties of single males) you can check out in person. Yes, they are that colorful.

Hope to see you tomorrow. :)
 
Tony

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Nah man. You can definitely do that. All mbuna. Saw Acei, yellow labs, afras (forgot about that one), johanni in there. All dissimilar enough not to inbreed.

You can do-eet.

See you tomorrow. :)
 
Tony

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
What part?

And what's up with your filtration?... get some pic posted up so we can have a look. Like we were talking about, it may take a bit of modification, but you should use your existing sump.
 
SubMariner

SubMariner

Master Jedi & Past VP
Good Luck with your decision Greg.:)

Nonetheless, Tony gave you a wealth of information and Billy Rocket did bring up a good idea, but I too am a little bias towards African Cichlids.

BTW, The Great Ad Konings actually pronounces Mbuna... Mabuna.


RM
 
gliebig

gliebig

Members
Tony said:
What part?

And what's up with your filtration?... get some pic posted up so we can have a look. Like we were talking about, it may take a bit of modification, but you should use your existing sump.
Click to expand...


I'm sworn to secrecy. :D

I'll post some pics of the back of the tank soon. It's a bit of a mess down there right now. I started breaking down the tank today and pulling out most of the live rock.
 
gliebig

gliebig

Members
Not much new to report. My tank still has a few fish in it that I am finding hard to part with and my malawi background should be shipping out this week.
 
gliebig

gliebig

Members
Took the pooch up susquehanna today and started noticing all the cool rocks. Think these would be safe for a tank? Maybe bleach/boil them?

IMG_0864[1].jpg

IMG_0862[1].jpg
 
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