High Nitrates

[mikemanis]

Hi all -
I have a 110 gallon tall tank with mbuna in it. I have had the tank setup since October, let the cycle complete and all my tests have been great until this last week or two.
I have 2 HOB Aquaclear 110 filters running on the tank..

I noticed brown algae growing on my glass so I tested the water. The Nitrates were up at 80 - when they have always been at 20 before.
All the other numbers were fine - ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0.

I normally change 10-15% or the water every week.. and I have backed down feeding to 1 time a day - enough that its all gone in a minute (rarely hits the bottom.)

I have 30 fish in the tank all about 2-3" long...

I am trying to figure out what changed so quickly that the nitrates jumped. The only thing I can figure is I cleaned one of the 2 HOB filters around the time this started.

The first thing I will do is a bigger water change - and I will vaccum the bottom while doing it (I normally do this every other water change anyway)

So question is - what should I do. I don't want to move all the rocks and caves around - to fully vacuum - or I will be in the tank forever..

Looking for suggestions. I have read about stuff like Algone and nualgi.. I don't want to be a scientist - just want to have a nice aquarium

By the way - the fish look fine, are active, have nice color..

Thanks in advance
Mike

 

[chriscoli]

How do the fish look? Do they look happy and colored-up?

 

[jonclark96]

I would start with less light and more water changes. 10-15% a week is, in my opinion, not enough. I'd bump it to 50%.


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[clearsky5]

what jon said.

 

[mchambers]

Yep. I typically change at least 50% of the water a week.

 

[festaedan]

I agree, 50% is good. And clean the substrate ever time you clean.
Did you recently start feeding them more?

 

[dhavalsp]

This would be a good time to look behind the rocks if you have not done so in 6 months.

I generally do 40 % WC weekly and move things around to get behind those tricky areas once a month.

 

[mikemanis]

ok - I get the hint - so let me ask the next question..
Do I need to clean out the HOB filter sponge? and how frequently?
Is it possible that I did that wrong the first time and "stuff got dumped into the tank from the filter? Because I think some did come from the sponge into the tank - and could that cause the spike?
Last - should I use something like Algone / nualgi in the tank to maintain the right balance?

 

[Tangcollector]

Rinse out the sponges in tank water and up the amount of water in the water changes. I would do 50%

 

[mikemanis]

oh yeah - sorry to answer the questions..
The fish actually look great, very active, showing color, all the mating ritual stuff going on etc...
and I actually completely cleaned the tank (emptied all the rocks and vaccumed) 2 months ago..

The tank has:
6 Yellow Labs
6 Yellow Tail Acei
6 Rusties
6 Albino Socolofi
5 Lwanda
1 Syno Cat

Here's a pic:

 

[festaedan]

oh yeah - sorry to answer the questions..
The fish actually look great, very active, showing color, all the mating ritual stuff going on etc...
and I actually completely cleaned the tank (emptied all the rocks and vaccumed) 2 months ago..

The tank has:
6 Yellow Labs
6 Yellow Tail Acei
6 Rusties
6 Albino Socolofi
5 Lwanda
1 Syno Cat

Here's a pic:

Tank looks great
I would just keep doing 50% waterchanges as frequently as you can (every day at most) until the nitrates are back to normal.

 

[dogofwar]

Especially with mbuna, you can't do enough water changes. 50-60% per week isn't too much.

Water changes basically dilute the nitrates that nitrifying "bacteria" in your filter and tank produce. If your nitrates are 80, then you'd need to do a couple of 50% water changes in short succession to get them back to ~20. Lower is even better.

Squeezing out the gunk in your HOB mechanical media is a good thing but getting some in the tank wasn't the cause of the increased nitrates. Can't hurt to squeeze them out before you change the water and any gunk that you accidentally return to the tank itself will get sucked out.

Looks like a great tank!

Matt

 

[mikemanis]

Thanks everyone for your notes - Round 1 seems to have been successful - looks like I am already down between 20 and 40... If there are suggestions for maintaining - let me know.. Based on the notes above - sounds like the answer is - Water Changes

All the fish looked happy afterwards

Mike

 

[jonclark96]

There are plenty of ideas floating around the internet about how to reduce nitrates (and therefore reduce the need to water change) but none that I have seen are as simple as changing water. There are algea scrubbers, fluidized sand bed filters, and lots and lots of plants, but the best solution in my opinion is just to change water.

Now, if you can figure out a way to automate the water changes, things will get a lot simpler. If I ever get to build a fish house/room, I will center the design around automatic water changes.

 

[Termato]

Just like John said. Plants will definitely help and the water changes make the world go round.

I do want to note one thing. Once your API or almost any liquid nitrate test goes over 15-20ppm the reading becomes highly inaccurate. Sometimes, even at lower concentrations it's innacurate. There are a lot of calibration systems out there so I'd make to do to that if you want accurate nitrate readings.

I was getting 40-60ppm readings on my API Master Test Kit and I was able to get it tested at Salisbury University and the results came back as follows:

Nitrate as N03 out of Tap:
33.8ppm (Lab Tested - Nitrate Ion Selective Electrode)
20ppm (LaMotte Kit)
40ppm - 60ppm (API Master Test Kit)

Nitrate as N03-N out of Tap:
7.68ppm (Lab Tested - Nitrate Ion Selective Electrode)

At this point in time I lived in Salisbury, MD and they were reporting N03 at 5ppm instead of the actual 33.8ppm out of the tap. It was a whole ordeal.

 

[mikemanis]

Thanks alot -
I live in North Potomac Md, not sure how to get detail measurements here.. I can tell you, that I saw a quick spike in brown algae on the glass and it coincided with the spike in the nitrate readings I saw.

The one and only rule form my wife on this aquarium is it has to be clean and not smell Thats the main reason for the focus..

Since no one has mentioned it - I am assuming no one likes the things like nualgi or Algone. It "advertises" that it should provide stability between water changes and less frequent need for them...

Thanks again - I will do another change probably this weekend.. hopefully it will bring it way down...

Mike

 

[MDB_fish_newbie]

I'm not an expert at all but I was having a similar problem when I had a 50 gallon hex tank with an Oscar and silver dollars. They are both pretty messy fish. The flow in the tank was not so good and all the waste would get stuck in dead spots and rarely made its way into the filter. It might help to get a circulation pump to stir up the bottom since u have HOB filters. Just a thought. I tend to be a lazy fish keeper and only do water changes once every week or so, about 35%. But I way over filtrate, have plants, and a good flow.

 

[Termato]

Our water in Montgomery County is good quality soft water at about 8dGH in comparison to the rest of Maryland. Our nitrates out of the tap are around 5-10ppm normally. I've occasionally measured some ammonia coming out of the DC tap water but never in Montgomery County. You can see here they report 10ppm out of the tap for Rockville: http://www.mde.state.md.us/programs/Water/Water_Supply/ConsumerConfidenceReports/Documents/CCR2015/Montgomery/0150003_City_of_Rockville.pdf
This link says otherwise: https://www.wsscwater.com/files/live/sites/wssc/files/water%20quality/wqr_latest_en.pdf
"Potomac water tends to be hard (typically averaging about 120–130 milligrams per liter). Patuxent water is soft (typically averaging about 60–65 milligrams per liter)". Anyone have actual tests on the water around here?

What I would do is check your nitrates after the water change and then check them against BEFORE your next water change. This way you can see how much normally builds up in the tank. Then you can adjust to either change more water AND/OR more frequent water changes.

I would highly recommend getting plants as it not only adds to your decor but it will soak up ammonia readily. This leaves less ammonia in the tank for the bacteria to eat. In the end, that leave less matter to be turned into nitrate. I'm only bring this up again as it would potentially allow you to not have to increase your current level of maintenance...possibly. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Termato]

I received this email from the water plant in Rockville:

Thank you for contacting the City Rockville with your water quality questions. The hardness of the water in the Potomac river can vary between 80-160 ppm of Total Hardness, and is considered moderately hard. The reason for the range is due to weather conditions, the amount of surface water run-off into the river, and the amount of rainfall. This winter, we have been in the 110-135 range, and today the hardness is 116. We test for hardness 3 times per day at the water treatment plant. I don't have access to data for other water plants outside of their published Customer Confidence Reports. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to contact me, I am always happy to discuss our water quality

Sincerely,

Glenn Maggard
Water Treatment Plant Superintendent

I also asked if he could give me the GH and KH separately so we have an idea as well.

 

[Termato]

Is it possible to make it so you can edit a post after 30 minutes? I hate to keep making posts on this thread but I have more information I got from the water plant in Rockville:

This is the message I received from Glenn at the Water Treatment Plant

Making an assumption, as "general hardness (GH)" is not a term that is used in water chemistry, I think it is referring to Total Hardness. Total Hardness consists basically of calcium and magnesium ions.

TH=Ca2+ + Mg2+

Total Hardness is also the sum of carbonate hardness and non-carbonate hardness

TH = CH + NCH

Normally, Ca and Mg are combined with other species in water such as OH, CO3, HCO3, SO4 and CaCl2. When this happens, these compounds are called non-carbonate hardness

Another water parameter we analyze for is Alkalinity. Alkalinity is the measure of the buffer capacity of water, i.e., substances acting to resist changes in pH. Titrations are performed to determine alkalinity. Carbonate hardness is hardness that is combined with the water's alkalinity. If the total hardness is greater than the total alkalinity, then the difference between them is the non-carbonate hardness. TH-TA=NCH. It is important to note that all hardness and related components are in terms of Calcium Carbonate equivalents.

Using these simple relationships, we can determine, for example, the hardness analysis that was performed today at the water plant:

If TH = 116 mg/l
if TA = 72 mg/l

then 116 - 72 = 44 mg/l NCH
Since TH = CH + NCH, then TH-NCH=CH

116 - 44 = 72 mg/l CH (carbonate hardness)

Hope this helps. This is the first time I have had questions from fish keepers. Typically they come from home brewers.