Help this Miami boy understand true winter temps.

H

hurtmypony

Members
I am trying to determine if I have a lazy heater, or a particularly cold room.


Knowing that the place the tank I was setting up my 55 gallon would be cold, I went ahead and bought a 300 watt Fluval E SmartHeater. Since it was rated for up to 120 gallons, I figured it would handily manage the water at a constant 78.5.


It would not.


Ambient room temperature where the tank is set up is a withering 62.5 degrees (which is only marginally colder than the response I got from the little lady when I told her I already want a second tank).



The pricey Fluval, with all its digital bling, could only bring the temperature of the water up to 77 degrees, despite me setting it at 78.5. For two days, it refused to budge from 77 degrees, so I went out and got a glass Aqueon 200 watt and threw it into the tank on the opposite side.


I raised the temperature setting of both heaters up to 79.5 degrees to see if they could consistently manage the temperature, and results are questionable.



The Fluval’s built-in thermometer says the temperature in the tank is 80 degrees on its side of the tank.


An independent (but admittedly cheap) thermometer probe in the center of the tank says the water is 77.7 degrees.


The Aqueon glass heater doesn’t have a temperature reading, but it seems to kick on frequently.


Is it possible that 500 watts worth of heater still can’t bring a tank up to 78.5 degrees in a room with the ambient temperature of 62.5? Or is my cheap little digital thermometer and probe just giving me an inaccurate reading and I can assume the Fluval is correct?


I obviously don’t want to put any fish in here until I am certain I can provide them a consistent, welcoming temperature. What are your experiences with warming tanks in cold rooms?
 
Tony

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
A 300 watt heater should certainly be enough to heat a 55 up from 62 to 80 degrees. Perhaps the thermostat is broken in the Fluval. Have you tried unplugging the other heater and setting the temp on the Fluval above 80 degrees? Do you have a glass lid on the tank?
 
C

Cartel

Members
Did you put your digital thermometer on different sides to see if it registered the same degree? 1 of those heaters is more then enough to raise that tank to whatever you desire.
 
H

hurtmypony

Members
I put it the independent thermometer on both sides and middle, I get varying degrees within 77 now. This is with both heaters set at 79.5, mind you...so I am thinking the independent thermometer is wrong.


Yesterday, before I added the 2nd 200 watt heater, I submitted a customer service issue with Fluval. Today, I got a reply from Fluval saying that:

1. To them, the heater sounds like it is working fine (!!!).

2. If I want to have my tank at 78.5 instead of 77, I should turn the heat up in the room at least 2 degrees.

Well, Fluval, since I have to alter the temperature of my home to suit your product, why don't I just remove your heater from my tank, return it and turn up the whole house heater to a muggy 78.5 degrees?

It is enough to make me want to return this and try my luck with a different one, but I got it at Big Al's.

I don't want to wait the the time it takes to ship it back, process the credit, and get a different heater shipped to me, and I don't have enough money to buy a different one to use in the meantime.

I also don't trust this Aqueon heater for anything but a back up.

Fluval wasn't rude about it, and they did reply within 24 hours, but you have confirmed my suspicions - 300 watts should definitely heat up a 55 gallon tank in a 62 degree room. I just don't think this heater is up for the job. It heats kind of weird, too. There's no way to tell it is on, except in the complete dark - even then, the coils don't stay red, but instead pulse on and off intermittently. I think I read somewhere they call it "pulse heating"...like some burners on modern stoves.
 
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H

hurtmypony

Members
Tony said:
A 300 watt heater should certainly be enough to heat a 55 up from 62 to 80 degrees. Perhaps the thermostat is broken in the Fluval. Have you tried unplugging the other heater and setting the temp on the Fluval above 80 degrees? Do you have a glass lid on the tank?
Click to expand...

A day ago, I changed it from 78.5 to 81 degrees right before bed. It was 77 in the morning. That's when I assumed it couldn't handle the burden.

I do have a glass lid. Does that mean something, too?
 
verbal

verbal

CCA Members
hurtmypony said:
A day ago, I changed it from 78.5 to 81 degrees right before bed. It was 77 in the morning. That's when I assumed it couldn't handle the burden.

I do have a glass lid. Does that mean something, too?
Click to expand...

A lid will mean that air warmed by the water will be trapped. Otherwise you will lose a lot of heat(and some water via evaporation) when the water contacts the cold air at the surface.

Also how much filtration do you have in the tank? Generally speaking the more the water is being turned over, the more heat would be escaping from the surface.
 
Reel Addiction

Reel Addiction

Members
I would think a 300 watt should handle a 55 with ease. Whats up with "Help this Miami boy" and your keeping 62 deg. Figured you would have that heat crankin and complaining about it being too cold.

Its probably not heating well because your koralia is on the wrong side of the tank;):D
 
YSS

YSS

Members
I found that temp settings on heaters are pretty much useless. I use the thermomter to figure out the tank temp and turn up or down the heater setting until I get the desired temp. I have two heaters on my 265G and setting on one is at 85 and ther other at 82 to keep my tank temp at 84 ~ 86.
 
jonclark96

jonclark96

Past CCA President
I agree with Yun. I use the settings on the heaters to get close to where I want it then adjust from there.
 
H

hurtmypony

Members
Reel Addiction said:
I would think a 300 watt should handle a 55 with ease. Whats up with "Help this Miami boy" and your keeping 62 deg. Figured you would have that heat crankin and complaining about it being too cold.

Its probably not heating well because your koralia is on the wrong side of the tank;):D
Click to expand...

Hey! I think I have it almost to your specifications: Koralia and heater on one side (along with the intake for the Eheim... I know ideally it should be by the Eheim's outflow, but that's halfway along the top as one of those spray bars, so I kept it right smack dab next to the intake in the right corner.

As for the heat in the house, I am in a three storey townhouse with poor temperature management. The tank is in the basement - if I make it any warmer down there, I will be able to fire pottery like a kiln on the top floor's bedroom dressers! I have to dress up like I am part of the cast of movie Fargo everytime I visit the tank. (I am, of course, exaggerating. I like it when it's cold down there.)

verbal: For filtration, I have an Eheim 2217, a Penguin 200 HoB. If water motion can cause heat loss, you should also know I have a Koralia Evolution and a couple of tacky bubble wands.

Fluval replied to my reply:

Dear Tim Creevay,

The heater is calibrated for a room temp. of 68 degrees. If the room is colder than that you may have to turn the temp up to achieve the desired temp. in the tank. The heater can heat a tank of that size you just may need to turn it up more because of the room being cooler than the calibrated temp.

Thank you,

Lisa Emery
Customer Service Dept.
Rolf C. Hagen (USA) Corp.

So, is she now saying I need to turn up the temperature setting on the heater like you guys are telling me, or does she mean I still need to turn up the heat in the room?

If so, what will happen when I set this thing to, say, 85 degrees now in winter to get 78.5 and then we get a few warm days and the heater kicks up the temp to 85? Won't my Africans die?

UPDATE: She clarified: Turn the temperature gauge on the heater to a higher degree than I want it to compensate. You guys were right again, but I worry for the fish when it gets warmer and actually heats it to the higher temperature setting.
 
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Reel Addiction

Reel Addiction

Members
Ah now I see why its 62. Im in the basement also and dont usually adjust mine, but they do fluctuate a couple degrees to the + and - by about 2-3 deg. Generally they are around 78-80. Thats a 300w in a 40 breeder.
 
C

Cartel

Members
Right now I would look into how long the heater is on. If it is staying on for a really long time then it would sound like it's not up to the job if your just having to turn the knob higher then you should have to and it is cycling on and off then that's not a big deal. Like mentioned just use the dial as a guesstimation. As an example I have a heater turned on to 75 yet it keeps my tank around 79 on another tank I have it on 82 to keep the tank around 79.
 
Avatar

Avatar

Plenipotentiary-at-large
This is inane....

...these are mass-produced manufactured units, not lab equipment. The calibration is all relative, and especially on thermometers. Just turn up the heater until it reaches the temperature you want. Suspect quality control on heaters is a little better on heaters than thermometers (unless you have a good one) so I would be inclined to believe what the heater says and not the thermometer.
 
H

hurtmypony

Members
Avatar said:
...these are mass-produced manufactured units, not lab equipment. The calibration is all relative, and especially on thermometers. Just turn up the heater until it reaches the temperature you want. Suspect quality control on heaters is a little better on heaters than thermometers (unless you have a good one) so I would be inclined to believe what the heater says and not the thermometer.
Click to expand...

All understood. Though the actual problem appears to be that my $52 heater cannot breach 77 degrees in a 55 gallon tank, and that's judging from the heater's built-in thermometer AND the independent thermometer (actually the indie says it is a little colder, but close). Whether it is set at 81 degrees or 78.5 degrees or 79.5 degrees for hour after hour, it seems to remain at 77 degrees.

That's strange, no? No matter what the setting is up to 81, it stays 77. You would think if it was a question of calibration, the temp would at least climb a little when I move from 77 to 81.

Since I haven't set up a tropical tank in five years, and I have not ever set one up in a basement that would make polar bears put on turtlenecks, I just wanted to asked experienced northern fishkeepers if I was expecting too much from the equipment based on the ambient temperature.
 
H

hurtmypony

Members
Update in case anyone is interested:

Called Big Al's. Those are some nice folks over there. They said these heaters often have these problems.

As instructed, I put it in a filled 5 gallon bucket, and set the heater to 84 degrees.

After 45 minutes, the water was 72 degrees (from 67-ish).

After 90 minutes, the heater reached 78 degrees for the first time. After 3 hours, the temperature finally climbed to 79.5 but still hadn't gotten any closer to 84.

Big Al's guy said it should have heated that little water to any temperature in that amount of time.

So he issued me a free shipping label via email to send it back. They said they will process a refund as neither party wanted me to receive the same brand/model of heater.

Meanwhile, the Petco Aqueon 200-watt, working on its own, got the temperature in the tank to 78.7 degrees by morning (probably sooner - that was the first time I was able to check it).

Sorry to clutter the site with my stupid little issues, but I certainly appreciate all the knowledge and advice everyone has given me as I slowly get this tank running.

You guys rock!

Tony: If all goes on schedule, and your offer still stands, I'll see if I can score a seeded sponge from you sometime next week to kick off the tank's cycle! I will wait for the new heater (unordered so far) and my fake rocks (arriving Monday) before I cross the last obstacle to populating my tank!
 
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