What Is Your Favorite Stripping Technique?

[Charlutz]

Just to continue a thought from the thread about Mike's holding featherfins, do you strip or let your mouthbrooders hold til they spit? I'd prefer to let mine hold but usually I don't have the space to keep species only tanks or isolate holding mothers. Also, my current breeding group are cyps, and they will hold forever. My usual move is to catch the mom at night while sleeping, then hang the net on the side of the tank to catch the babies. I hold her mostly flat on her back and then tilt her up so only her lips are in the water. This usually causes a gag reflex so she'll spit. With fryeri and the cyps, however, I had to use my fingernail or a toothpick (cyps) to prop open the lower jaw. Tonight, however, I tried something I read, which was to use my thumb to gently push on the throat cavity -- where you can usually see the babies through the skin of the mouth. I pushed towards the rear of the cavity and the mouth popped right open and she spit six fry (good brood size for cyps). I dropped her back in the tank. She was in the net for five minutes or so and in my hand for less than 30 seconds. I'm very psyched how easy it was. Anyone else have a favorite technique?

 

[longstocking]

hmmmmmmm... most of my fish just spit like yours but if they give me problems... I GENTLY push on their gills. This causes the mouth to open really wide. I tried the method of pushing on the throat cavity.... didn't work on Gobies. So I gave up and went back to my method. I don't like using tooth picks etc.... I don't feel as if I know how much pressure I'm applying. Most of the time I just use my finger nails if I use this method. I find finger nails are the best on Paracyps etc. It just depends on the fish. If they are hardy fish with strong jaws... I don't really worry to much.

 

[Charlutz]

hmmmmmmm... most of my fish just spit like yours but if they give me problems... I GENTLY push on their gills. This causes the mouth to open really wide. I tried the method of pushing on the throat cavity.... didn't work on Gobies. So I gave up and went back to my method. I don't like using tooth picks etc.... I don't feel as if I know how much pressure I'm applying. Most of the time I just use my finger nails if I use this method. I find finger nails are the best on Paracyps etc. It just depends on the fish. If they are hardy fish with strong jaws... I don't really worry to much.[/b]

My fingernails worked on the fryeri, red empress, peacocks, but the cyps mouths are so small I couldn't do it. Then again, my fingernails are probably a bit blunter and clumsier than yours. It is a bit harrowing to do it with the toothpick and I was concerned that I might accidentally poke one of the fry with the point of the toothpick as they started to come shooting out. Pressing on the throat worked really well for the cyps anyway.

 

[daniel4832]

I was going to just jump in and say how much I dislike the whole idea of stripping, but you both have brought up some goodpoints. I usally put my holding Tropheus in a net breeder and let the female spit in there, and I had waited until I saw the female Fronts release the fry in the tank to feed for a couple times until putting her in a bucket for her to spit her fry. But after seeing my "Kapampa" Fronts swallow hundred of dollars of eggs/fry I'm thinking about trying out your methods.
I main reason I don't sprip is that I beleive that the fry lose valuable information from their parents/group, and end up making poor parents, in 4 of my 5 Tropheus WC breeding groups, the fry are spit into the tank and most survive. People that have bought my fry find them hardier and also they hold their fry full term, where most of the fry survive. Since none of the Fronts that I have sold have reached breeding size yet, I have no data on if it has made any difference.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[maddog10]

I like to start with my shirt and work my way down until all I have on are my socks. I never take off my socks!!

 

[Charlutz]

I like to start with my shirt and work my way down until all I have on are my socks. I never take off my socks!![/b]

That is exactly the sort of behavior I expect from elected officials.

 

[cyradis4]

Not mentioning any names, but it would appear that at least some members of the board have low, dirty senses of humor. And while some of it makes you wonder, at least it makes for interesting threads! :happy0007: :sign0018: :woman2:

Amanda.

 

[DeeCee]

Mikey, you NEVER take off your socks? Ummm it may be time to get a new pair then, hon. Must make for an interesting shower......... :character0305:

Awwwwwwww ok Amanda, back to the topic....... Since I mostly had discus, never had to strip too much. If I would have, I definitely would have stripped their socks too though! There were only a few times when I had to strip a cichlid, and those times, I pretty much did it with the "Flip & Dip" method like someone explained it earlier. Flip the Fish upside down, lightly hold her gills, dip her in the drink, she spits. Much better than using picks, at least for me!

 

[George]

OH YA, if there's anyone who would know about stripping :FIREdevil: . . . . . :angry3: well, 'nough said.

George

Mikey, you NEVER take off your socks? Ummm it may be time to get a new pair then, hon. Must make for an interesting shower......... :character0305:

Awwwwwwww ok Amanda, back to the topic....... Since I mostly had discus, never had to strip too much. If I would have, I definitely would have stripped their socks too though! There were only a few times when I had to strip a cichlid, and those times, I pretty much did it with the "Flip & Dip" method like someone explained it earlier. Flip the Fish upside down, lightly hold her gills, dip her in the drink, she spits. Much better than using picks, at least for me![/b]

 

[Tim]

Until I can decide for myself with some planned experimentations on imprinting, I just let nature take it's course. I move females that are holding to separate tanks if I want to try and get the fry. When I build my Tropheus tank, I intend to build a ledge on it where water will be shallow to give the females a safe place to spit their fry. Same for the gobies that'll be in that tank.
Tim

 

[daniel4832]

I like to start with my shirt and work my way down until all I have on are my socks. I never take off my socks!![/b]

I thought I was going to hve to burn out my eyes with the image of Micky in his socks, thank goodness I remembeed Donna and her whip and felt much better :FIREdevil:

Tim I had seen an article a while back, about making a shallow place for the females to release their fry, let us know how it works out.
I had a Tanganicodus irsacae female holding, and have been waiting to see her exchange the fry with the male (since they are suppose to be biparental mouthbrooders) either I missed the exchange or the female was the only one to hold. Anyway she looked like she was about to burst, so I netted her, moved her into another tank where she immediately spit her fry. So I guess my favorite way of "stripping" is to not , and wait until the female naturally releases her fry. Since she hasn't taken the fry back in I'm going to move her back with the male in a day or two, get her fatten up first before putting her back with the male.
Now if I could only figure out how to get those Kapampa Fronts to hold their fry, why is it that all the other Fronts that I have bred will hold to full term, and the Fronts from the Congo area don't. Does anyone know of anyone who has gotten them to hold to full term, I don't!? What is missing, any ideas, suggestios???
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[longstocking]

There are some fish that eat the fry... in a matter of hours. Gobies, sand sifters, etc..... I'd suggest you move the female asap. You might get lucky and she won't... but I'd move her. Gobies are all a little bit different in how they care for fry. Mine ate the suckers in 30 mins.

 

[Pat Kelly]

For me it depends on the fish.
I have some that will hold on forever even when you put them in a tank by themselves. With these I tend to put the female in a net in a bucket. I use a plastic twisty to push open the mouth and keep dunking.

I have never had to stip an AER. You can not lift them out of the tank without them spitting. For those, I catch in the tank and then put a cup in the net to scoop. put the cup in the female holding tank and wait. Even then they usually loose 2 or 3 in the transfer.

Now as far as Mike goes, can we get some pictures. lol

 

[daniel4832]

There are some fish that eat the fry... in a matter of hours. Gobies, sand sifters, etc..... I'd suggest you move the female asap. You might get lucky and she won't... but I'd move her. Gobies are all a little bit different in how they care for fry. Mine ate the suckers in 30 mins.[/b]

Sarah,
I have bred all four goby cichlids, and for the most part I haven't had the parents eat their fry. They may, as a lot of new parents do, eat them the first couple of times, but after they get the hang of it and they usually stop eatting them. Most breeders don't give their fish a long enough time to learn how to be good parents before they take over, removing eggs, stripping the fish, etc. I have found that patience is one of the most important traits in being sucessful breeder. It took me almost 30 years to finally sucessfully raise and bred Tropheus :smashfreakB: now I have 5 breeding groups, none of which do I strip.
You may want to give your gobies, sand sifters, etc. more time to learn to be better parent, rather then taking away the fry immediately, yes you will lose some fish in the beginning, but the parents will never learn if not given a chance. I also feel you end up with better quality fry.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[longstocking]

Nah... I think 3 years was long enough to let them be good parents. I've bred all 4 as well... ALL the wilds ate the fry.

In terms of sand sifters... SOME eat the fry in MINS !!!! Some do protect them. Depends of the type.

 

[daniel4832]

Nah... I think 3 years was long enough to let them be good parents. I've bred all 4 as well... ALL the wilds ate the fry.

In terms of sand sifters... SOME eat the fry in MINS !!!! Some do protect them. Depends of the type.[/b]

And I spent 30 years before I got it right with Tropheus, some pairs (groups) won't get it "right" (as in breed naturally) and I have made the decision to try to only breed as close to "naturally" as possible, doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong. Just means that this is the technique I have choosen, and the one that I think is the best for me, in my opinion.
Two main reasons for my decision, one is when the angelfish were being bred by the eggs being taken away from the parents and raised artificially, which a number of us felt weaken the fish and lead to the angelfish almost being wiped out from the hobby by a wasting disease in the '80's. I had been breeding my angelfish by allowing the parents to raise them, and my fry never came down with the wasting disease. The other is that those that I have sold my Tropheus fry too have had no problem breeding them in the same "natual" way I do, and not have to strip them. Again, this is what worked for me.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[Tim]

Daniel,
I bred the T. irascae once. The parents swapped the fry on the same flat rock they initially bred on. When the male finally spit the fry, it wasn't the parents that ate them, it was the Telmatachromis dhonti. I was told the best tank mates for T. dhonti (orange scribble) was plastic plants and rocks. I guess this is why I should listen to the experts instead of doing my own thing. :smashfreakB:
Watching the parents swap fry was pretty cool. I think I may have some picturs of it in the Fishaholics gallery. (Although they were far from clear.) If they're not there, let me know and I'll post a pic or two here.

Sarah,
There are a large number of tempermental fish out there that eat their fry at the slightest sign of danger, movement, etc. I wonder if your fry eating parents would eat the fry if they had a sheltered place to spit them. Maybe I'll build all the tanks with a shallow shelf where the larger fish can't get to, just to different mouthbrooding parents a place to spit their fry. It'd be interesting to see if this alleviates some of the fry eating problems.
Tim

 

[longstocking]

I had the pair for over three years... I tried EVERYTHING ! Put the male in is own tank.... left them in the tank...I mean I tried EVERYTHING as they bred every month so I had plenty of time to figure it out.

Even in his own tank by himself... and another time with the mom... he still ate the fry.

Now I had a pair of spathodus.... sometimes they would sometimes they wouldn't. Gobies are just one of those fish where every pair is different.

Now Erets... are a bit different. I did have 1 pair that wouldn't but they were ina tank full of other fish that would ! But then I had anohter pair that would !

With Sand sifters.... callochromis eat their fry. Only 1 time did I have some fry survive... was weird... all the rest of the times over 3 years as well... they ate them They spawned ALL the time. Constantly ! Xenotilapia are much better parents !

It's not from a lack of trying guys

 

[daniel4832]

I have been wondering why the female didn't switch fry with the male, since this is the first time I have gotten fry out of this pair. I am speculating that the male has been eating the fry, I have seen the female holding a number of times but have never seen the male holding. Again I'm speculating that the female decided not to switch with the male this time. As you say each fish/pair is different, and if I'm right they are even more fascinating then I thought!
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[longstocking]

lol... they are weird. What might be happening Daniel is you don't have a "pair" The female might be mating with herself.

I have a pair right now... they are 2 gay females. they mate with each other ROFL ! I really need to find a male for the "lovers"