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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Your daughter's not practicing chemistry or feeding experiments by any chance?

How do you "lose" an established Biological filter? It's not like they grow legs and walk off LOL does the spike kill the good bacteria?

Can't be done as far as I know unless you specifically extinguish the beneficial bacteria. Barring some sort of chemical or antibiotic treatment, this notion of a filter meltdown strikes me as an extremely unlikely explanation for a tank 'crash' as the bacteria don't simply up and stop doing what they do unless they're all dead, or they get cut out of the loop by a power outage or other circumstance (blockage) that changes water flow so that they're no longer looped in to normal/desired circulation of water in the tank.

Far more likely seems that the filtration's 'capacity' threshold was overwhelmed either by gradual build-up or sudden spike of waste, or by a change in tank conditions that released toxins faster than they could be broken down (the pockets of gas theory).

Fish are generally hard to kill or our hobby wouldn't be as popular as it is. As you know they can handle a wide variety of conditions so long as those conditions change slowly as opposed to suddenly, so other than abrupt fluctuations in water parameters or a precipitous drop in dissolved oxygen levels, the only other real candidate for a causing a crash (at least that I can think of that might apply here) is a pH spike. You guys don't buffer your water as I recall so unless you didn't do water changes for a really long time and were just topping off the tank this seems an unlikely cause.

With all respect, I don't believe good bacteria can "go AWOL". Die or be overwhelmed by conditions, yes, disappear, no. Or so I imagine. If someone knows otherwise would love to hear about it.
 

fischfan13

Banned


Can't be done as far as I know unless you specifically extinguish the beneficial bacteria. Barring some sort of chemical or antibiotic treatment, this notion of a filter meltdown strikes me as an extremely unlikely explanation for a tank 'crash' as the bacteria don't simply up and stop doing what they do unless they're all dead, or they get cut out of the loop by a power outage or other circumstance (blockage) that changes water flow so that they're no longer looped in to normal/desired circulation of water in the tank.

Far more likely seems that the filtration's 'capacity' threshold was overwhelmed either by gradual build-up or sudden spike of waste, or by a change in tank conditions that released toxins faster than they could be broken down (the pockets of gas theory).

Fish are generally hard to kill or our hobby wouldn't be as popular as it is. As you know they can handle a wide variety of conditions so long as those conditions change slowly as opposed to suddenly, so other than abrupt fluctuations in water parameters or a precipitous drop in dissolved oxygen levels, the only other real candidate for a causing a crash (at least that I can think of that might apply here) is a pH spike. You guys don't buffer your water as I recall so unless you didn't do water changes for a really long time and were just topping off the tank this seems an unlikely cause.

With all respect, I don't believe good bacteria can "go AWOL". Die or be overwhelmed by conditions, yes, disappear, no. Or so I imagine. If someone knows otherwise would love to hear about it.

I agree with Sam.
I have always been the minority in the hobby that does not believe a tank "crashes", however.
I know I will not be the most popular person here by saying this, but people use the "Crash" theory as an excuse.
Something is wrong in the tank.
Disease.
Chemicals.
Ammonia.
Something.
Adding "potions" might make you feel warm and fuzzy all over, but it only pads the pockets of those who make these potions.

MTS and Bad gas?
I was under the assumption that snails would be the one's releasing anything caught in the sand, not the cause of adding to it.
 

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Plenipotentiary-at-large
I agree with Sam.
I have always been the minority in the hobby that does not believe a tank "crashes", however.
I know I will not be the most popular person here by saying this, but people use the "Crash" theory as an excuse.
Something is wrong in the tank.
Disease.
Chemicals.
Ammonia.
Something.
Adding "potions" might make you feel warm and fuzzy all over, but it only pads the pockets of those who make these potions.

MTS and Bad gas?
I was under the assumption that snails would be the one's releasing anything caught in the sand, not the cause of adding to it.

I have never experienced a tank crash. Ever. At least none that couldn't be accounted for by system/operator failure (probably including my own but I tend to overlook unflattering personal moments/memories). Ergo I agree with William, or more precisely, we agree with each other! Go figure. Can we get a witness and enshrine this as SOP going forward? Totally unrealistic, right? Oh well... :D
 

Ophelia77

Members
Good to know boys:) and if you had smelled the 5 gal bucket of sand coming out of the tank or the entire specimen cup full of MTS that came out (No joke, snails only - sand was sifted out), I'm sure we would all agree something was not right. Thank goodness for having Vicks in the house or I wouldn't have been able to take the smell of death. And, btw, that tank does get baking soda added....
 
Sam -- be thankful that you've never had to pull out the dead bodies of 10 beautiful male peacock/haps and 4 multipunctatus due to a nitrite spike in a fully established and mature tank. This happened to me a couple of years ago. I'd done a water change the day before or so. Had not opened any filters or done anything unusual. The next morning, I'd noticed everyone seemed to be breathing heavy. I did a water check and nitrites were at 1 ppm. I did a quick water change that made me late for work and left. When I got back from work 12 hours later, I had lost about half my fish and the nitrite was off the charts. I literally spent hours, long past midnight, doing water changes. I had dismantled the tank decor at the point to remove the dead bodies and pulled out the one last female lab that I'd been trying to catch for months. I put her in a QT and went to bed. By 6 a.m. every single fish in the tank was dead. The only survivor was the lab. It was devastating. The only explanation I could come up with is I must not have dechlorinated a bucket and the chlorine killed the bacterial culture. Since the tank was overstocked, it quickly became a fatal situation.
 

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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Am most thankful to have thus far avoided such.

Sounds to me like you had 'help', possibly from the local water utility. Have never checked but isn't hard to believe or imagine that treatment plants are periodically responsible for delivering a supply that has more chlorine and/or chloramine in it than is typical or even allowable. Another reason to perhaps be generous or err on the side of caution when using Prime, Amquel, or whatever de-chlorinator one does.

Sure hope to have a good well one day. Probably not as good as rainwater or a cistern for New Worlds, but could be ideal for Rift species.
 

ddavila06

Members
that suxs man, are you sure your canister wasnt fully clogged? the reason i ask is that when i was cleaning my tank i shut off the water valve to my fluval 405 and when i finished i forgot to release the water. so about a month later i realised it was off so i cleaned the tank and stupid me i released the valve and the water that came out was so foul it killed one fish almost instantly!

point is, badly clogged filter could have caused bacteria to die overtime until finally it came loose and released a lot of bad water into the tank...or something like that
 

toddnbecka

Members
Most likely an ammonia spike, either from inside the tank or the water treatment facility using chloramine. One additional danger of a high pH is that ammonia is much more toxic than in acidic water, so it hits the fish harder and faster in a Tang or Malawi tank.
I do have a vintage 500 lying around. No lid, cord has a switch spiced into it, and it's so old that the media basket is just a single plate, but it still works if you want it.
 
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