Sump Filtration - What do you use?

[AquaStudent]

I picked up a 20L at the $PG sale for use as a sump on my 55g AC tank.

In doing my research I've come across quite a few different options on filtration and want to see what you all have experience with.

First, here are my thoughts.

I'd like to start the sump off with a trickle down onto some foam/floss. This will provide some mechanical filtration. Is this step necessary (I've heard mixed answers) and could I replace it with just Biological filtration?

Either way, next, I'm thinking biological filtration by the way of either Bio-balls or ceramic media. Is it better to provide a trickle drop on these as well?

Third and final, I'd like to have an open area to plant. With the bioload of a cichlid tank I'd like to help combat nitrates at least a little bit. Plus, I love growing plants!

The remaining section will house the return pump.

A 20L is a decent amount of space but I want to try and maximize the planting area while providing a great source of filtration. The tank will likely still have a canister filter attached to it although I'll switch out my Fluval 306 for a Magnum350. The Fluval will go to the tank in my bedroom because it's much quieter! I don't want the Magnum350 running on it's own because it's not as reliable or powerful as the Fluval.

Thoughts? Experiences? Ideas?

 

[cichlidaddicted]

If possible I'd do trickle onto/through the bio and I Would use biomax or matrix over bio balls. Bio balls seem like the incandescent light bulb compared to led technology, just my opinion the plants are a good idea my nitrates are always high.

Sent from my SCH-S960L using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[verbal]

If you are looking to reduce nitrates, you might look into algae scrubbers. They are used a lot more in marine set-ups, but they are used some in freshwater sumps.

 

[DougGosnell]

Fluidized bed filter is the way to go... "accept no substitutes". No channeling like wet dry and developed for the waste water treatment plants, so you know it can handle some %#$@$. I built my own 275g one that more than handles my fish room needs, maybe too well as I battle nitrates but that is another story. Mine is not like this one but if you see the operation in the youtube, you can figure it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IclxZ7aK22A

If you are looking for nitrate removal, part of my presentation on Saturday will be my "bio-sand bed" style denitrators. With all my tanks and feeding 1000s of growouts, water changes really do not work for me. Pretty simple to make and will crush nitrates.

 

[AquaStudent]

Excellent suggestion! I completely forgot about the Kaldness K1 Media! I saw a video way back UruJoey did on a DIY filter build. That would be a good addition but I don't think I want to do all of it with the K1. That may be a better addition than the Bioballs. I have a large airpump with multiple outlets that would be perfect for K1.

@Verbal - I was considering an algae scrubber. I think I want to go a different direction though. Good thought.

 

[dogofwar]

You definitely want to use mechanical filtration before bio...unless you want your sump to be full of crap.

This is what happens when you don't use mech before bio (or you just never clean it):

[YT]AZzU8gjDbjw[/YT]

People can argue over which bio media is the best but a 20L full of just about anything is more than adequate for a 55g.

Matt

 

[AquaStudent]

Mhmmm. Yummy! Perfect breakfast video. That makes sense though. Thanks Dog.

My goal with this project is to build something that will help reduce nitrates and keep the water cleaner. The extra volume should help quite a bit. I'm also always willing to experiment.

Any suggestion on pumps? Some are cheaper than others (there may be reasons for that). I don't want to have to buy twice.

 

[dogofwar]

More bio filtration (like a sump) will result in MORE nitrates, unless you aggressively intervene upstream (before nitrate formation can occur). That's what bio filtration does.

What are some things you can do?

Of course, reduce waste production through lower stocking, less feeding and cooler temperatures.

Remove waste before it breaks down to nitrates via (frequently changed) mechanical filtration and siphoning waste from the tank (less substrate helps). Use a filter sock to keep poop and waste out of your sump...and clean it frequently. And siphon out any gunk that gets into your bio media.

Use of (primarily terrestrial) plants that prefer to consume available ammonia and nitrite to nitrate. Some people use pothos in sumps.

At the end of the day, water changes are about the simplest and easiest way to keep nitrates in check. Maintaining a 55g shouldn't take more than a short time per week!

Matt

 

[DougGosnell]

I use 2 x 2" layers of open cell foam and blast the crude off of the top layer everyday and the bottom layer maybe every 2 weeks. The agitation of fluidized beds means there will be little is anything accumulating on the bottom. I tried cleaning mine once at 3 months of operation and another at 6 months and there was nothing there. I use a paper cart after the bed and it gets jacked up pretty hard and needs bleached frequently but that is it.

 

[CichlidAddict]

Remove waste before it breaks down to nitrates via (frequently changed) mechanical filtration and siphoning waste from the tank (less substrate helps). Use a filter sock to keep poop and waste out of your sump...and clean it frequently. And siphon out any gunk that gets into your bio media.


At the end of the day, water changes are about the simplest and easiest way to keep nitrates in check. Maintaining a 55g shouldn't take more than a short time per week!

Matt

Fish do not excrete nitrogen as urea in poops as in mammals, so fish poops will not break down into nitrate. Instead, fish excrete nitrogen as ammonia primarily through their gills, and secondarily through urination.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/197851/excretion/58716/Fishes

Mechanical filtration is helpful in reducing nitrate production chiefly by removing uneaten food and dead biomass that accummulate in the destritus. Ultimately, water change is most effective in reducing nitrate in a freshwater system.

 

[dogofwar]

Sorry, I wasn't using poop (or gunk) as technical terms...but as a catch all for uneaten food, detritus, etc.

The use of terrestrial plants that take up ammonia (from whatever source) is a sound nitrate reduction strategy.

Matt

 

[AquaStudent]

Thanks guys. I've got some studying for my comprehensive exams to do today but after that I'll take over my whiteboard for some design work.

 

[AquaStudent]

I sketched out a few designs. Any suggestions or mistakes you can point out would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the first design.



This design has everything within the 20L tank. First step is a few layers of mechanical filtration from some sponge pads. I can build either a trickle tray (or get a small plastic bin and drill it) or use PVC. Below that stage will be a fluidized bed filter using Kaldnes K1. The water will fill up to the top on the next stage where it will trickle down onto some porous media (Growstones). Lastly we have the refugium.

An alternate design would use some of the space below the Growstones chamber but would not allow for the area to be planted in the refugium.



I was planning on putting the return pump at the end of the refugium with a prefilter but here's an alternate design. It will have less of a min/max water level difference but will prevent air bubbles and debris from clogging the pump.



The second design uses more of the 20L tank. It starts off with a plastic pencil drawer piece with some sponges for mechanical filtration followed by the Growstones bio filtration from a drip. The water then enters the fluidized bed section(s). The overflow pours into the refugium before being pumped back into the tank.



Hopefully the pictures are relatively clear. The dotted lines are anzhats on water levels.

 

[blkmjk]

The problem I see is that if your mechanical filtration gets clogged... Water will spill out of the top.

I personally would suggest filter socks in the first chamber. Then bio media. Then open cell foam around your pump. 2ND stage of mechanical filtration.

This is the way I have mine.. Just haven't installed the socks yet. I will take pictures tonight.

Drew

 

[dogofwar]

Try this (DIY Sump):

http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3621

 

[dogofwar]

Honestly you can make the sump as complicated or simple as you want.

I use dumps (basically a sump on top of the tank and water "dumps" back into the tank via gravity) instead of sumps...but I have the water supply to the filter go through (from top to bottom)

1) A tray of fluff / sponge (mechanical filtration): it takes less than 30 seconds to remove and replace it or rinse it (which I do frequently)

2) A sheet of Poret (bio and some mechanical) - I rinse every couple of months

3) A bunch of bio material (bio balls, shredded plastic, plastic army men, lava rock, plastic scrubbies...whatever that has a lot of surface area)

I've kept Pothos in them as well but I have better luck with them in the tank itself (I don't think they like the flow).

A few gallons of whatever bio material is more than adequate for a 55g tank...or a 200g tank for that matter!

Matt

 

[AquaStudent]

The problem I see is that if your mechanical filtration gets clogged... Water will spill out of the top.

There are openings on the top of the compartments in the tower (Design 2) and a gap at the top of the first (and second) compartment (Design 1) to let water continue through the system if one chamber becomes clogged. On Design 1 the highest point in chamber 2 is lower than the highest point in chamber 1 which is lower than the rim of the tank. That should provide an escape route that should fill the sump prior to flooding.

Looking forward to the pics.

Try this (DIY Sump):

http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3621

That's essentially the idea in the tower in Design 2. I'll then use the section below the tower for a fluidized bed and the rest as a refugium. I can always build a separate chamber for the pump but was planning on adding some sponge material to prevent any clogging to the pump.




I hope I'm visualizing this correctly. The overflow from the tank will be about half an inch below the rim. That'll keep the water level in the tank above the trim. Any evaporation loss will show in the sump and not the tank.

Now in the event of a power outage the return pump from the sump, will of course stop. That means no new water will be pumped into the tank. The water level in the tank will drain down to the lowest point on the system which will likely be the top of the overflow. The spray bar/outflow from the sump may be slightly lower but if it is it shouldn't be by much.

Now the only water that will return back to the sump will be what's contained in the plumbing running from the return pump up to the tank.


I also need to do some calculations to determine what pump I'm using and transfer that over to what size PVC I'll be using. I'm not overly pressed for space since I already know the overflow won't fit inside of my background.

Here's a picture of the tank from a few months ago. Currently the canister intake is hidden on the left side. Water gains access to the intake from a 'drain' in the center and from the left side. A tunnel runs along the bottom backside connecting the center drain to the intake and houses one of the heaters. The water is pumped back into the tank in the upper right hand corner and houses the second heater.



It's hard to explain but if you're curious about the build/design here's the thread.

http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18422

 

[Tony]

Hey Tony,

You mention it above, but the biggest issue that you will run into is the frequency in which your sump pump will be sucking air. Especially in the first design, your return section is just so small, that the water level will fluctuate greatly.

If you consider the first design, your media is taking up half the space. The remaining space (10 gals of tank vloume or so) will only be filled up to the level of the weir. This drops capacity down to about 6 gallons. In that amount of space a return pump with a sponge can only be so low to the bottom of the tank - probably about 1/3 the height of the tank or ~3 gallons. This gives you wiggle room of 3 gallons of evaporation before you have to top off.

During the summer, this may be every other day or so? Remember, the sump will not have a tight fitting lid and will have a lot of contact with the air, so water evaporates much quicker.

Mediocre solution: either create an auto-topoff with an aqualifter pump or microjet and a float switch. I did this for a 10 gallon sump I built about 10 years back for my reef tank. It was a lot of work though, not 100% reliably and the reservoir took up extra space. It was nice to minimize salinity fluctuations though.

Better solution: Go with a larger area where the water level can fluctuate.... perhaps 75% of the tank. Use the tower section purely as mechanical filtration then go right into a simple weir to knock out bubbles. The remaining space might be divided into two areas by screen or drilled plexi. This will create two sections - one for your plastic biomedia and another for you aquatic plants.

Best solution: Get a taller tank (if it will fit).

The K1 stuff is nice, but like Matt said, just about any plastic material works fine. I do not believe that your tech comparison with lightbulbs is anywhere close. I use a combination of bio balls, pot scrubbers and ceramic rings in my big tank's sump (whatever fell in my lap).

For a return pump, I've always had Mag-drives. Total workhorse imo and easy to fix if need be. Make sure you get one appropriate to your drain rate. How are you doing that btw? Is your tank drilled? If not, that will be your the main concern of flooding in my experience.

 

[Tony]

I love your background, btw.

Heck of a job!

 

[AquaStudent]

Excellent points Tony. I like the idea of using a screen or drilled sheet instead of weirs. If I go with the fluidized bed though I'll be using airstones. Won't that completely defeat the purpose of building the weir after the first section?

I will sketch up a Design 3 with the ideas that you've given me.

Thanks a bunch.

I am up in New York so the summers aren't quite as harsh as Virginia. That may extend the evaporation another day maybe... (still not worth it)

Sadly a taller tank wouldn't fit under my stand :/

P.S. You made me learn a new word today: weir. That's very applicable in this situation