my story got picked up by the washington times

[STATMATT]

Yes, that tank was INCREDIBLE. I loved those fish and to come home to a stinky mess of belly ups was unimaginable. I've only recently gotten fish swimming around in there again. Special thanks to fischfan, what an amazing set of Hongi's.

 

[tug]

Matt,
I hope I can apologize. I realized the article was about you a little too late.
Nothing to say, other then I'm sorry to have gone off on our CCA buds and to thank you.

 

[Prince]

The illegal search and seizure was wrong. They could have done a protective sweep of the apartment by SWAT but even that is a little questionable if they had good information that you were alone. A protective sweep does not allow you to search. Just check to see if their and any other parties in danger. The EOD sweep I am not sure about. I don't know if that falls under a protective sweep. I hope you win your suit toe recoup the damages. If you plan to reside in DC register your weapons or store them in another State.

 

[Hawkman2000]

I'm so mad, I don't even know what to say.

 

[dogofwar]

This all begs the question: Who are returning vets supposed to call if they're having the kind of post-trauma symptoms that Matt had (has)?

The length (10+ years) and nature (use of IEDs, traumatic brain injuries, frequent repeated deployments, heavy use of reservists and national guard, etc.) of our present wars HAS resulted in a lot of people who NEED HELP. In a culture that frankly frowns on people getting the kind of help that they need.

The way that the VHA and DC PD handled this situation could further discourage vets from getting the help that they need. And that's a tragedy!

I would love to hear about how the VHA - which, despite its shortcomings, is one of the best coordinate, most technologically advanced ("wired") and highest quality healthcare organizations in the country - can use this situation as a learning point to ensure that situations like this are prevented from happening. Same with the DC Police Department.

Matt

 

[Prince]

This all begs the question: Who are returning vets supposed to call if they're having the kind of post-trauma symptoms that Matt had (has)?

The length (10+ years) and nature (use of IEDs, traumatic brain injuries, frequent repeated deployments, heavy use of reservists and national guard, etc.) of our present wars HAS resulted in a lot of people who NEED HELP. In a culture that frankly frowns on people getting the kind of help that they need.

The way that the VHA and DC PD handled this situation could further discourage vets from getting the help that they need. And that's a tragedy!

I would love to hear about how the VHA - which, despite its shortcomings, is one of the best coordinate, most technologically advanced ("wired") and highest quality healthcare organizations in the country - can use this situation as a learning point to ensure that situations like this are prevented from happening. Same with the DC Police Department.

Matt

Up until the possible illegal search and seizure the incident was handled by the numbers. The hotline call taker needs some retraining though. What made this situation start to spiral out of control were the knowledge of his possession of unregistered firearms ( Do not assume you know my stance on the second amendment based on that sentence because you don't.) I am pretty sure DC's list of registered gun owners is short. Very short. I am pretty sure they checked his name against that list. When they found out he wasn't on the list. They were determined to get those guns. If he wasn't in possession of those firearms at that time especially the long gun I am pretty sure that call would not have generated the response it did.

Call for service like that especially involving vets have become the norm over that last few years. Generating at least one call per week.

 

[dogofwar]

If this is "by the numbers", I'd hate to see what "not by the numbers" looks like!

I'm not a law-enforcement expert but it seems that there were many, many opportunities (starting with the initial call) to de-escalate the situation. And no one (other than Matt and his neighbor) took those opportunities.

Reality is that hundreds of thousands of vets are coming back from service with traumatic brain injuries, PTSD, depression, alcohol and drug issues, having difficulting re-adjusting, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, where the rubber meets the road so often is with law enforcement (same with mental health issues not involving vets).

The problem started when Matt tried to get assistance for his nightmares. He took a brave step and reached out for what he thought was the correct resource. And got just the opposite.

A point that I think is also really important: Matt isn't a junior soldier. He's a senior non-commissioned officer (First Sergeant?). In other words, he's likely among the most likely to know what the heck is going on / resources available.

Finally, I don't find Matt faultless in this situation. He broke the law by having un-registred guns. Of course DC guns laws are confusing and onerous. Compounded by having different laws in MD and VA. Owning guns is a HUGE responsibility (on many, many levels), so there is really no excuse.

But how different would things have been if Matt had received actual assistance / support from the number he called? Including non-punitive information on the process and immediate urgency of properly registering his weapons?

Matt

 

[Prince]

If this is "by the numbers", I'd hate to see what "not by the numbers" looks like!

I'm not a law-enforcement expert but it seems that there were many, many opportunities (starting with the initial call) to de-escalate the situation. And no one (other than Matt and his neighbor) took those opportunities.

Reality is that hundreds of thousands of vets are coming back from service with traumatic brain injuries, PTSD, depression, alcohol and drug issues, having difficulting re-adjusting, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, where the rubber meets the road so often is with law enforcement (same with mental health issues not involving vets).

The problem started when Matt tried to get assistance for his nightmares. He took a brave step and reached out for what he thought was the correct resource. And got just the opposite.

A point that I think is also really important: Matt isn't a junior soldier. He's a senior non-commissioned officer (First Sergeant?). In other words, he's likely among the most likely to know what the heck is going on / resources available.

Finally, I don't find Matt faultless in this situation. He broke the law by having un-registred guns. Of course DC guns laws are confusing and onerous. Compounded by having different laws in MD and VA. Owning guns is a HUGE responsibility (on many, many levels), so there is really no excuse.

But how different would things have been if Matt had received actual assistance / support from the number he called? Including non-punitive information on the process and immediate urgency of properly registering his weapons?

Matt

Matt how was the situation not deescalated? No one on either side was hurt other than a sore wrist. No one shot. He surrendered peacefully and was taken into custody with out begin physically harmed. I am sure they tried to call him before this started. They may haven even tried a knock and talk although highly unlikely since his mental state was in question and he was armed. When they couldn't reach him by phone to talk to him to determine his mental state the took the prudent approach and cleared the area in case he decided to go out in a blaze of glory so to speak. But he didn't. The finally awoke him via the bull horn that was the first time anyone from MPD spoke to him. Know the way he was spoken to and treated based on his version of the incident wasn't right but from a tactical stand point it when by the numbers and no one was hurt. Matt I don't understand what more you would have wanted in the way of deescalation. I look at this as two separate incidents the first was everything that led up to him being taken into custody. The second was everything that happened after he was taken into custody. Everything MPD did tactically in the first incident was as I said by the book when dealing with a armed barricaded subject. When they were not able to contact him it turned into a barricaded subject. I am not sure what more could have been done to deescalate the issue during that part.

During the second the incident that was plan and simply sh!tty police work. Some of the Officers involved were mad because he refused to willingly let them search his home. I can't fault the man for that. I would have handled it the same way especially knowing what he had at stake. Some Officer feel that if you make them work for it you will pay for it in some way. His way of paying to them was destroying his property. That was wrong.

Under Maryland guidelines he qualified for an emergency petition for a psychiatric evaluation (EPP).
Here is a quick summation of the requirements:
The propensity to due harm to your self or other.
a diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health issue.
I think they are some what universal from state to state.

While he did the right thing calling the help line. That call could have been construed as him wanting to hurt himself. The hotline counselor told MPD that he had a gun to his head so that checked off one. He may have PTSD like many returning soldiers so that checks of two. One and to made three which meant he was taken to the WRAMC for treatment although I think he volunteered to go.
An EPP requires that the subject be taken into custody and transported to the nearest hospital with the ability to treat him and if necessary forcefully detain him until his mental health status can be assess and if necessary treated by a license doctor.

 

[Nathan]

Some Officer feel that if you make them work for it you will pay for it in some way. His way of paying to them was destroying his property. That was wrong.

That's pathetic, he/they should lose their job, isn't destruction of property a crime in DC?

 

[dogofwar]

The key opportunity for de-escalating the situation was NOT reconciling the situation that the police EXPECTED to find based on incorrect information from the hotline operator (i.e. a suicidal maniac - Rambo - barricaded in his house and threatening to kill himself...shoot people through the floor...blow up the building) with the REALITY of the situation when they arrived (i.e. just the opposite)....despite lots of evidence.

According to the neighbor: the police refused to accept the simpler explanation. “The cops said we needed to leave our house because Matt was going to shoot through the ceiling,†Ms. Sommons said. “They painted this picture like Rambo was downstairs and ready to blow up the place.â€

And: None of the cops’ documents indicate a threat that warranted a “barricade†and the closure of several streets to create “an outer perimeter that prohibited both traffic and pedestrian access.†With dozens of cops on the scene, they created a “staging area†two blocks away.

I'm not in law enforcement but I was an Army officer. I understand that you need to plan for the worst case scenario and that you're limited to available intelligence / information.

But when you arrive on the scene and you realize - or should realize - that your intel is bad... you've got to act based on reality at the scene.

It seems that these guys failed to do that despite sufficient evidence.

No one got physically hurt (beyond Matt's wrist), but this incident did a lot of harm to Matt (who, ironically was trying to get help), to the reputation of the police and (likely) to the taxpayers of DC.

Matt

Matt how was the situation not deescalated? No one on either side was hurt other than a sore wrist. No one shot. He surrendered peacefully and was taken into custody with out begin physically harmed. I am sure they tried to call him before this started. They may haven even tried a knock and talk although highly unlikely since his mental state was in question and he was armed. When they couldn't reach him by phone to talk to him to determine his mental state the took the prudent approach and cleared the area in case he decided to go out in a blaze of glory so to speak. But he didn't. The finally awoke him via the bull horn that was the first time anyone from MPD spoke to him. Know the way he was spoken to and treated based on his version of the incident wasn't right but from a tactical stand point it when by the numbers and no one was hurt. Matt I don't understand what more you would have wanted in the way of deescalation. I look at this as two separate incidents the first was everything that led up to him being taken into custody. The second was everything that happened after he was taken into custody. Everything MPD did tactically in the first incident was as I said by the book when dealing with a armed barricaded subject. When they were not able to contact him it turned into a barricaded subject. I am not sure what more could have been done to deescalate the issue during that part.

During the second the incident that was plan and simply sh!tty police work. Some of the Officers involved were mad because he refused to willingly let them search his home. I can't fault the man for that. I would have handled it the same way especially knowing what he had at stake. Some Officer feel that if you make them work for it you will pay for it in some way. His way of paying to them was destroying his property. That was wrong.

Under Maryland guidelines he qualified for an emergency petition for a psychiatric evaluation (EPP).
Here is a quick summation of the requirements:
The propensity to due harm to your self or other.
a diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health issue.
I think they are some what universal from state to state.

While he did the right thing calling the help line. That call could have been construed as him wanting to hurt himself. The hotline counselor told MPD that he had a gun to his head so that checked off one. He may have PTSD like many returning soldiers so that checks of two. One and to made three which meant he was taken to the WRAMC for treatment although I think he volunteered to go.
An EPP requires that the subject be taken into custody and transported to the nearest hospital with the ability to treat him and if necessary forcefully detain him until his mental health status can be assess and if necessary treated by a license doctor.

 

[Prince]

Matt ask yourself how many times you have heard this in tragic situations. They were nice folks or he was a nice guy I never thought he was capable of that. He was always nice to me I didn't think he would do that. And that same person they are talking about mass a mass murderer or a child molester. As much as we like to believe it’s not true most people don't have a clue what their neighbors are about. Two we can discount one third party (the Hotline operator) and then believe another 3rd party (the neighbor) without verifying the facts. When dealing with call for service like this we have to talk to the alleged suicidal party to confirm their mindset. Statements from neighbors don't count as conformation. That’s why her simple explanation wasn’t accepted. She was allowed to open his apartment and go down stairs to confirm his welfare because no Police Officer in his right mind would allow a citizen to venture into possible danger like that. That’s asking for your department to take your badge whether something goes wrong or not. The only way to verify MPD could verify his mental state was to speak to him in person. The only time that option was available was when STATMAN heard the bull horn and walked out the door. Sorry but a knock and talk isn’t a safe option. The safest option and standard practice region wide is to call the home or make contact with the person that maybe armed in the home and have them come out unarmed. No Officer should be within 10 feet of that door if the scene permits.

None of us including the writer can question MPD level of response. MPD did what they felt would bring the incident to a safe and peaceful conclusion based on the information they had. No more no less. The margin of acceptable risk is very low in law enforcement. Most teams would rather wait you out or gas you out rather than breach the door and start a fire fight. None of use including the writer know what their protocols are concerning barricaded persons. Someone though he may blow something up so EOD responded. Better safe than sorry.




Take Rambo comment for what it is a ploy to get that lady to leave her home. Is the incident sometimes described to be more than it is? Yes it does happen to accomplish that goal. Let’s be honest this didn’t cause any lasting damage to anyone but STATMAN and his upstairs neighbors.


to sum this up in its simplest form. While we can and will respond to call for service based on 3rd party information in instances where someone maybe injured and threatening to injure themselves the responding Officers have to speak to that person and in many cases actually physically see the person.

 

[Prince]

If their is a suspicion of firearms being involved in any incident the kid gloves and kind treatment are set aside until the firearm issue has been addressed and the scene is made safe. Does it ruffle folks the wrong way sometimes. Yes. I try to do a great job of explaining why what just happened happened to you. Most folks understand that it not personal just about the officer going home his or her family in the same condition he or she arrived to work in.


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