Getting Started. Please help!

[hayrea]

I know there are a million threads about getting started with cichlids but a little direction would be much appreciated. I recently purchased a small 29 gallon bow front tank from "PetsMart" :wacko: for the kids and I made the mistake of buying mixed mbunas. 7 to be exact. Well I love the fish even though I can't even identify a few of them. I've made all the obvious mistakes that misinformed beginners make wrong fish, wrong substrate, wrong decor, improperly cycling the tank so on and so on. Anyway, I to get more serious with another and what I'm hoping for is your suggestions on a few basics. I'm picking up a used 125g bare tank with lids today and I need to get it outfitted.

Filters
heaters
lights
substrate
rock scape ideas
cycling processes
?
?
?

Now for the hard part. Which cichlids? Peacocks, Haps or Mbunas. All males or mixed? How many of each? How many total fish to put in a 125?

Once again any and all advice appreciated.

Jake

 

[dogofwar]

It is SO AWESOME that you found us, Jake!

You're in good hands, as there are some really experienced folks with regard to African cichlids and their care. And even great sources of quality fish

A 125g is a great size tank and can give you many options. Is the tank drilled for overflows?

Matt

PS How did you find us?

 

[hayrea]

No overflows on the tank. I was looking on cichlid-forum.com and I was looking to get some local advice and their you were. Looking forward to get started.

 

[jonclark96]

From a filtration perspective, you will get lots of different advice. The best path depends on a few items. First, where are you putting the tank? If it is in a part of the house that you live in regularly (living room, family room, etc) I would suggest a combo of canisters and hang-on-back filters. They are typically quieter than any other filtration. I have a 6 foot 180 in my living room that is filtered with 2 FX5's and it is virtually silent. I also have a 120 in the family room filtered by 2 AC110 HOB's and an Ehiem 2076 canister and it is quiet as well. The downside is that canisters and HOB's are expensive. New AC110's are around $70 and canisters can run up to $230 if you buy them new.

If the tank is in the basement or another part of the house where you don't mind more noise, either a sump or dump filter is better bang for the buck. There are lots of DIY instructions on the internet that can walk you through the process. The main cost of these types of filters are a pump (around $100). Either way works, it depends on your expectations.

Another option is multiple air driven filters (sponges and box filters). This way works, but it is "ugly" in the tank and lots of bubbles means lots of noise.

Let us know a little more about your plans and we can help. Glad you found the forum. Our next meeting is in a couple weeks and it would be a good opportunity for you to meet the club and pick up some nice fish at a good price in the mini auction.

Jon

 

[DiscusnAfricans]

Heaters - one 300 watt or 2 150-200 watt heaters should be fine. A lot of people prefer 2 on larger tanks so one isn't constantly running, and if one fails, there is still a backup. Brands are personal opinions, there mare a few threads you could find with some details. Most people will tell you to get a quality heater, it will pay for itself in the long run.

Lights - depends on how fancy you want to go. I generally do standard T8 lights on larger tanks for cost effectiveness, but you have tons of options. LEDs are very popular and energy efficient, but will cost a lot up front. The type of light (spectrum) will depend on what type of fish you have, and if you want plants).

Substrate - Pool filter sand is very popular, easy to clean, and cheap for large tank setups. Some people use a layer of crushed coral if they are housing Africans, but there are a few ways to enhance your buffering capacity. Any substrate can be fine, just keep the bed shallow to make cleaning easier. Some people will put egg crate down first if they plan to use a lot of rock formations.

Feel free to ask more questions, I'm sure we can help get you in the right direction.

 

[Avatar]

Well alright then - welcome.

For ease and simplicity it's hard to beat the AquaClears. I run those and Eheim canisters on all my larger tanks, a pair of the AC 110s would get you started and probably be sufficient unless you really overstock the tank and neglect to do periodic water changes. Whatever filter you choose, strongly encourage you to get some foam pre-filters for the intake tubes to catch particulates and boost your bio-filtration - much easier to clean a foam sponge than the inside of a filter.

T5 fixtures are a good, very compact, energy-efficient and inexpensive lighting choice. Deep Blue is a good brand (better than Coralife for my money) and while they don't make anything longer than 48" as yet, a pair of 36" fixtures for freshwater (they package/market units with bulbs for both) would do just fine.

For heaters its hard to go wrong with Jaegers although I'm very pleased with the Fluval M series which are cheaper and about appear to be the most aesthetically-pleasing looking heater made. Tank that size you might want to go with a pair of 200W units at opposite ends of the tank rather than one larger one (that is if you need a heater at all).

Which leads to my last notion - Have you considered New World species? There's a lot to be said for Central and SA cichlids (which include angelfish and discus) and tetras to say nothing of Amazonian bottom dwellers that include the Corydoras catfish family and a colorful and diverse assortment of plecostomus-type scavengers that are unrivaled anywhere. South Americans in particular generally play well with others, don't at all mind being on the cool side and don't require any buffering to raise the pH of the water. Thing to do might be to test your water to determine pH and hardness and inform your decision based on what's coming out of your tap (some/most fish stores will do it for free if you bring them a sample). Not trying to scare you, most everything will likely survive even if you just use straight dechlorinated tap water especially captive-bred stock (use Seachem Prime or Safe for this), but with children you doubtless already have much else to engage you that requires "pushing things uphill". If you're after your fish thriving as opposed to merely surviving (happy fish are breeding fish) and have spawning ambitions (for fish) like most of us at CCA, might be worth a look.

Ken's Fish has all this stuff as cheap or cheaper than anywhere else and a free shipping policy for orders over $150, but Google and sometimes Ebay are your friends although online retail is so cheap it's a little hard to justify buying anything used aside from tanks except for big-ticket well-built things like Eheim canister filters that can be had for less than half of retail if one is patient (and a sniper).

Good hunting.

 

[dogofwar]

By the way, kids are welcome at meetings as well.

Matt

 

[Avatar]

That's right, encourage them.

By the way, kids are welcome at meetings as well.

Matt

Only by those that have them.

Just kidding, we have a regular swarm of little people that set up shop in the back of the room where they are regaled with things to do and amuse, Matt being but one of several folks whom ensure that said sub-group is ever something of a party.

 

[hayrea]

Thanks guys, I'm not afraid to spend a little money to have less frequent maintenance. Filters and lights especially. So far this is what I'm thinking

Fluval FX5
2x 200w Jaegers
egg crate nonsupport the rocks
pool sand, crushed coral or combo


As far as lights I'm lost way to many choices. I don't think I can afford LEDs. What would be a good choice $200 or less. It's going to be in my man cave so I want it to look decent. I'm tossing around suspending a bar from the ceiling to hang the lights on. Kind of an industrial look and have easy access to the top.

Do I need an additional HOB filter if I go with the FX5?

What about water movement? Power heads, pumps etc.

Thoughts?

Jake

 

[hollyfish2000]

I'll talk fish while you boys talk mechanics.

You have a big tank, so you have lots of options. However, as a relatively new fishkeeper I'd recommend an easier tank and leave the difficult stocking and more aggressive fish to when you have a bit more experience.

One easy option is a mixed peaceful mbuna and peacocks. Stocking would be something like this:

8-10 yellow labs
8-10 p. acei
8-10 rusties

plus

a breeding colony of less aggressive peacocks, perhaps a ruby red

1 or 2 M to 6-8 females

plus 6-8 synodontis multipunctatus or synodontis petricola (catfish)

You could add a bristlenose pleco, but that's not absolutely necessary. You may also be able to up these quantities, as I don't work with such big tanks and don't know what numbers are best.

 

[Avatar]

Hate repeating myself

As far as lights I'm lost way to many choices. I don't think I can afford LEDs. What would be a good choice $200 or less.

T5s. With moonlights.

http://www.kensfish.com/t-5-light-strips.html

 

[jonclark96]

Thanks guys, I'm not afraid to spend a little money to have less frequent maintenance. Filters and lights especially. So far this is what I'm thinking

Fluval FX5
2x 200w Jaegers
egg crate nonsupport the rocks
pool sand, crushed coral or combo


As far as lights I'm lost way to many choices. I don't think I can afford LEDs. What would be a good choice $200 or less. It's going to be in my man cave so I want it to look decent. I'm tossing around suspending a bar from the ceiling to hang the lights on. Kind of an industrial look and have easy access to the top.

Do I need an additional HOB filter if I go with the FX5?

What about water movement? Power heads, pumps etc.

Thoughts?

Jake

I am a proponent of multiple filters on a tank in case of a failure. Although the FX5 is a great filter, and most likely capable of handling the filtration in your tank, if it would ever break, you'd be hurting to replace the capacity on short notice. Personally I'd run 2 AC110 as well. They are workhorses, move lots of water, and are easy to maintain. It may seem like overkill, but will pay for itself if you ever were to lose the FX5 and you save hundreds of dollars of fish in the tank.

On larger tanks, I also use powerhead to circulate water and push waste on the bottom of the tank towards filter intakes. It may not be necessary, but I don't think it hurts with most cichlid species. They can also be aimed to add in surface agitation to keep O2 levels up. Check eBay or Amazon for the FX5's. You can usually find new ones for around $230 shipped.

I'll let the other guys chime in on lighting. I'm on the low tech side of things when it comes to that. My advice would be to buy something that is easy to find replacement bulbs. I have one compact fluorescent fixture and the bulbs are a bear to find locally and are expensive.

 

[hayrea]

Two 30" T5s w/ moon lights?

Bulbs? I'm not going to be using any live plants. I just want focus on fish health and color.

 

[dogofwar]

I think AndrewTFW is selling some lights... might be an option... or you could actually use shop lights (from Home Depot).

An FX5 is a beast of a filter but an extra HOB can't hurt. The more mechanical filtration (gunk in the water) that you accomplish OUTSIDE of the FX5, the less often you'll have to clean it.

One piece of equipment that you absolutely, positively want to have is a Python or Lee's water changing device. Basically it allows you to do water changes without buckets. And - no matter how many filters you have - doing regular, partial water changes is a must (especially for African cichlids). One of these makes it a snap.

I'd mix pool filter sand (available at a pool store for like $10/50lb) with some crushed coral or something to buffer the water (if you go with African cichlids). I'm a "less is more" guy with substrate (mush easier to clean), so you probably only need 1/2 bag of sand and a couple of 20lb bags of crushed coral.

Landscaping stores are also a great source for rocks (much, much cheaper than LFS). Limestone's a good choice if you're keeping rift lake fish but go with what looks nice (and isn't toxic). Stay away from lava rock, in my experience.

For cycling your tank, the best thing is to use an existing filter (or gunk/fluff from one). Depending on where you live, there's probably at least one of our 200+ members who could assist

Have fun,
Matt

Thanks guys, I'm not afraid to spend a little money to have less frequent maintenance. Filters and lights especially. So far this is what I'm thinking

Fluval FX5
2x 200w Jaegers
egg crate nonsupport the rocks
pool sand, crushed coral or combo


As far as lights I'm lost way to many choices. I don't think I can afford LEDs. What would be a good choice $200 or less. It's going to be in my man cave so I want it to look decent. I'm tossing around suspending a bar from the ceiling to hang the lights on. Kind of an industrial look and have easy access to the top.

Do I need an additional HOB filter if I go with the FX5?

What about water movement? Power heads, pumps etc.

Thoughts?

Jake

 

[mchambers]

Water Changers

One piece of equipment that you absolutely, positively want to have is a Python or Lee's water changing device. Basically it allows you to do water changes without buckets. And - no matter how many filters you have - doing regular, partial water changes is a must (especially for African cichlids). One of these makes it a snap.

I'll second this aspect, but note that the Aqueon water changers are also good (I actually prefer them to the Python brand).

 

[Avatar]

Two 30" T5s w/ moon lights?

Bulbs? I'm not going to be using any live plants. I just want focus on fish health and color.

Nice to have the option though, and the brightest lights aren't necessarily the best thing for fish, but one can grow a lot of algae using them as well as with higher wattage. Personally I think my fish look great under T5 freshwater lights, am sure you can find someone to tell you that a marine set-up will make the colors appear brighter.

Assuming you have a 6' tank, two 36" fixtures might be the way to go.

Regarding water flow, one can do quite a bit by directing the filter outflow to move water. An AC 110 generates a very healthy water flow as well, and with a pair water movement shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Tony]

Some really great advice on this thread. Welcome to the forum, Jake.

Folks have hit up hardware pretty well, so I'll help with Malawi fish. Holly's advice of the three mbuna groups plus a peacock group is a classic that will not let you down.

I think most folks who have been really into Malawi have kept all-male hap/peacock tanks before. They are great tanks, but aggression can be tough to manage sometimes and they can be more expensive to start out with.

I would do something similar to what Holly is speaking about. Mixing peacocks and haps is generally fine and mixing most species of mbuna is also fine. Mixing the two groups together should be done with some caution as mbuna are generally more aggressive than haps/peacocks.

When mixing the peacocks/hap species, you need to be more careful of what you put together as the chances of hybridization are higher.

Another bonus of going with mostly mbuna off the bat is that they are colorful as juveniles whereas most peacocks and haps will not color up until at least 6 months to a year old.

Just some food for thought. Have you seen any species you particularly like?

 

[hayrea]

Holly

Thanks for the stock info. I like the Idea of the multiple groups of Mbuna and a single group of Peacocks. Do you have any more thoughts about less common cichlids I have Labs and an Aceis in my 29 and I was hoping for something a bit different.

Thanks again
Jake

 

[hayrea]

Picked up the tank tonight and now I'm really excited. Its a bit dirty but no scratches or chips and it hold water. What do you recommend for cleaning it. White vinegar?

The guy was super nice and gave me a few tips as well as a 40g breeder tank a few heaters and a AC110 filter that needs some cleaning. He also gave me a large bag of marine crushed coral/shell. It has some fairly large pieces in it 1/4 to 3/4". Is that ok to mix in with my pool sand?

I'm also ordering the FX5 tonight to get started on the cycling, hopefully in the next week or so. Do I need anything other than bio rings and filter media to get the filter going for the cycle?

We will see how far I get this weekend on the clean up job.

 

[dogofwar]

Awesome - I'd start with water and use some vinegar if needed. Just don't use soap or cleaning chemicals.

As for cycling, the best thing is to get some used media from a member. The dirtier the better The bacteria will colonize your filter (and everything in your tank)...

Matt