Difference Between Gold Head And Gold Face Compressiceps?

Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
I learned at the meeting that there is a difference (I assume collection points) and went to search the net for pics. Do any of the tang folks know of a way to distinguish them? After looking at what pics I could find, I'd say my group has attributes of both types. Mine were listed on OFNF as gold head.
 
longstocking

longstocking

Members
Hopefully Tim will chime in as I'm not 100% on this issue either.

My understanding is that it's the collection point.

I would guess... yours are gold face. It's more of a clear difference between the body and the head area.

I could be full of it though... and could be 100% wrong :smashfreakB:
 
maddog10

maddog10

Members
This is a problem that every retailer runs into. You sell them by the name they were sold to you as, unless you are 100% sure it is something different. I often think that wholesalers will rename a fish, slightly, to make it look like they have something that the next guy doesn't.

It is also hard to tell from photos on the net. You are going by what someone else thinks their fish is, and they could be wrong. Or perhaps the fish in the photo is the "exception to the rule". When I actually do try and research a fish, I go to as many different sources as I can to try and get an accurate description of the species I am researching. The FIRST place I go, in the case of rift lake fish, is the books by Ad Konings. Most of the photos are of fish in the wild (can't get any closer to the source than that).

At some point it boils down to having to take someones word. That is why it is recommended that you buy from reputable sources, of course you have to hope that they bought from a reputable source.
 
Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
This is a problem that every retailer runs into. You sell them by the name they were sold to you as, unless you are 100% sure it is something different. I often think that wholesalers will rename a fish, slightly, to make it look like they have something that the next guy doesn't.

It is also hard to tell from photos on the net. You are going by what someone else thinks their fish is, and they could be wrong. Or perhaps the fish in the photo is the "exception to the rule". When I actually do try and research a fish, I go to as many different sources as I can to try and get an accurate description of the species I am researching. The FIRST place I go, in the case of rift lake fish, is the books by Ad Konings. Most of the photos are of fish in the wild (can't get any closer to the source than that).

At some point it boils down to having to take someones word. That is why it is recommended that you buy from reputable sources, of course you have to hope that they bought from a reputable source.[/b]
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Agreed. Didn't want to reopen the collection point/naming discussion again. It's an interesting/frustrating topic. I was just hoping someone might know the attributes of each variant and what to look for to tell the difference. I referenced the OFNF listing because I figured you or Bob would see the post and might be able to contribute any additional info you would have gotten. I am assuming that many others keeping or selling this fish were like me, and unaware that they were two different variants and could have unknowingly contributed to the confusion by mislabeling the fish. I was looking at the net pics, which have the reliability problems you mentioned. Further compounding the problem (like we needed something else) is that these fish change coloration (though not as quickly as calvus) and depending on the time of the pic, you could see something that was not there a minute ago. If anyone has anything to look for, like the gill plate markings Tim pointed out on the brichardi complex fish, I would be most appreciative. I'll have to check my Konings tang book when I get home.
 
phishphorphun

phishphorphun

Members
No expert on the subject. But I would guess that Daniel's Gold Head looks very similar to what Tim showed in his presentation. Maybe he can tell us where it was supposed to be from.

GoldFace1.jpg
 
longstocking

longstocking

Members
Charles... if you really want to know. I'd ask Fog.( the admin ) on c-f. He'll know if anyone does. Or you can post on c-f... and he'll probably chime in.

If I have questions with any tang and I can't find the answer my self.... that's who I ask.
 
Tim

Tim

Members
The gold heads in the presentation where from a dive in Kambwimba, which is in the Kasanga area. The two major collection points in that area are Kambwimba and Kantalamba. I have no idea what the difference between the two are, if there is a difference. ;)
Tim
 
D

daniel4832

Guest
Bobby,
I do not know the location where my gold-heads was collected.
There seems to be, in my opinion, color differences, the "gold-head" such as the picture of mine shows that there is a uniformed yellow/gold covering the head completely, while the "goldface" is a more orange/gold color (nice picture in Ad Konings' "Tanganyika Cichlids in their natural habitat" page 89, which he labeled as "goldhead") and is confined to the face usally as a large blotches on the face. This information is from my personal observation while breeding these fish.
Thanks,
Daniel
 
Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
My issue of Konings' Tanganyika Cichlids is nearly 20 years old and it only refers to gold head and not gold face comps. There's a pic of one from Malasa island, with some gold on the head/face, but not as much as what I associate with gold heads. The narrative isn't too helpful to me, but maybe someone who knows the locations can make something of it:

Without red in the fins is the yellow-orange variety from Cape Chaitika in the south. More to the east we find the 'goldhead' compressiceps. This variety has the same gold-copper colored head as the red compressiceps from the north. At maturity the males gain a bluish tinge on the body.[/b]
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It continues:

Kruter and Duez observed another variety at Mutondwe Island. The males of this race look like the better-known goldhead from the same area but have a more prominent white speckling on the sides and darker unpaired fins. The vertical fins of the female are almost black.[/b]
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There are some pics in the Konings book including one from Mutondwe Island that has gold in the head that stops at the back of the eye. Maybe it is the Mutondwe Island fish that are the gold face? Daniel's male, the two fish I have that are definitely males and the pic that Mike posted of his fish in the photo gallery that came from the same group as mine have gold almost to the back of the gill plate. The fact that the females and juvies may have different coloration can only add to the confusion.
 
Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
Charles... if you really want to know. I'd ask Fog.( the admin ) on c-f. He'll know if anyone does. Or you can post on c-f... and he'll probably chime in.

If I have questions with any tang and I can't find the answer my self.... that's who I ask.[/b]
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I got around tp PM'ing Brett and he said the gold head and gold face are simply trade names. Not likely directly linked to a collection point. I recently lost the fish I thought was most likely a female in my group to a leap through a crack in the feeding door at night. I'd like to try and get 2-3 WC females.

Mike, if there is any way for you or Bob to check with your supplier on where they might have been collected, that would be a big help. Otherwise, I'll just have to grab what I can.
 
longstocking

longstocking

Members
I had a funny feeling that was the case. Brett knows his stuff ! Friends with many of the exporters/importers so he usually has a pretty good idea. He also understands taxonomy (sp?? )! So that helps just a tad !
 
D

daniel4832

Guest
Sarah,
Sorry to disagree with you and Brett, I have bred both and they look enough different to me, as do the orange, yellow and black compressiceps do from each other. I believe that part of the problem with ID is that the terms goldhead and goldface have been used interchangeably for both fish.
Their is an article on Cichlid-Forum, talking about the Goldhead located between Kala and Kalambo, while in their species profiles there is both a group of pictures of (so called) Goldheads and then a seperate picture of the A. compressiceps from Kalambo, looks like a "true" Goldhead to me. So if they are the same fish why are there to two different entrees for it?
Just becuse it's on the internet doesn't make it true, of course just becuse I say it doesn't make it true either :rolleyes: , just (as always) my opinion. Maybe if those collectors would just give the collecting points and we used those to describe the different colors. Yes, I do know that the collectors do not always say where the fish was collected, or even lie about where they were collected. :smashfreakB:
Thanks,
Daniel
 
Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
It looks like I am going to be guessing no matter what when I try and find some females for my two males. At some point, I need to have you come by and give me your best guess where they might be from. Of course, my two males look completely different from each other.

Sarah,
Sorry to disagree with you and Brett, I have bred both and they look enough different to me, as do the orange, yellow and black compressiceps do from each other. I believe that part of the problem with ID is that the terms goldhead and goldface have been used interchangeably for both fish.
Their is an article on Cichlid-Forum, talking about the Goldhead located between Kala and Kalambo, while in their species profiles there is both a group of pictures of (so called) Goldheads and then a seperate picture of the A. compressiceps from Kalambo, looks like a "true" Goldhead to me. So if they are the same fish why are there to two different entrees for it?
Just becuse it's on the internet doesn't make it true, of course just becuse I say it doesn't make it true either :rolleyes: , just (as always) my opinion. Maybe if those collectors would just give the collecting points and we used those to describe the different colors. Yes, I do know that the collectors do not always say where the fish was collected, or even lie about where they were collected. :smashfreakB:
Thanks,
Daniel[/b]
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longstocking

longstocking

Members
Brett does the profiles section. The calvus/comp section needs to be worked on and he hasn't gotten to it yet. He does almost ALL the profiles sections for c-f becuase he knows taxonomy. A lot of them still ned to be worked on... so it's best to ask him personally like I told Charlie to do.
 
Tim

Tim

Members
Their is an article on Cichlid-Forum, talking about the Goldhead located between Kala and Kalambo, while in their species profiles there is both a group of pictures of (so called) Goldheads and then a seperate picture of the A. compressiceps from Kalambo, looks like a "true" Goldhead to me. So if they are the same fish why are there to two different entrees for it?[/b]
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Although it's true the goldheads I saw were between Kala and Kalambo, I think that range is a bit wide. The only goldheads I saw were at Kambwimba. This is in the Kasanga area between Kalambo and Muzi. At both points, (Kalambo and Muzi) there are large, shallow sandy areas. While diving at Molwe, just north of Muzi and while diving at Kala, I did not see any gold head compressiceps. This doesn't mean they were there, but all the compressiceps I did see were pretty bland in coloration. Good luck with your quest on clearing this up. ;)
Tim
 
Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
Thanks. It's a start. My beta male has the brown of the fish in the pic you linked in that other thread, but not nearly the gold in the face. My alpha male has the gold in the face and looks in person just like the pic you linked. LOL that someone thought it was heavily photoshopped. My alpha male's face is even brighter than what you can see in that pic. His whole body is gold though, not brown like the one there. Not as gold as his head, but very gold. If I find him some potential mates, I definitely want to do my best in matching his looks/collection point.
 
D

daniel4832

Guest
Charlie,
Does your yellow bodied Altolamp look like page 89, picture #3 in Ad's Tangs Cichlid in their natural habitat?
Please get in touch.
Thanks,
Daniel
 
Charlutz

Charlutz

Members
I don't have that book. My copy of Konings' Tanganyikan Cichlids is maybe 20 years old. Here is a pic I've posted on the forum before though. Doesn't do him justice, but should give you an idea.

IMG_4221.jpg
 
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