Columnaris?

[Tony]

About a week after I got back from ECC, one of the large haps I got there was getting beaten up. I pulled her out and threw her in my 75 with some other haps I'm trying to get to breed. It looked like she had been getting picked on and had a skin issue running right behind her eyes, back a bit on either side of her dorsal fin. The skin issue looked as though the scales had lost their gloss... a bit lighter colored, but not raw flesh.

Anyway, I've been running around a lot lately and stopped to check out my fish really well last night. I noticed that there are a couple of other fish in the tank with the same issue. To make matters worse, there appear to be a couple of fish in my 150 with the same issue.

I Google searched skin afflictions and came up with columnaris. While I can't find a good picture that matches the affliction. It is not fuzzy or red, just a slight haze running down the back of the fish in a symmetrical pattern (same on both sides of afflicted fish) about midway between the lateral line up to the base of the dorsal fin. Most pictures I saw on a Google search showed fish with similar spots sort of randomly around their body, not in the symmetrical pattern (?).

So... any thoughts on id of the disease?

If it is columnaris, I've heard you should lower the temp to 75, add salt at 1 TBS per 5 gallons and treat with Methylene blue. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

It recommended a dip of double concentration Meth blue for 5 minutes. Should I hit all the fish in the tanks (even the non-affected ones)? How about Maracyn/Maracyn 2?

If so, catching all the fish out of the 150 is gonna be pretty rough...

Both tanks get 40-50% water changes every 7-10 days and are not particularly crowded. Filtration on the 75 consists of 2 sponges and an AC70 and the 150 has 2 Rena XP3s and an AC70. So water conditions are pretty decent.

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[F8LBITE]

Oh crap! I hope you catch it in time man. Ive never dealt with something like that.

 

[longstocking]

Doesn't sound like Columnaris to me.... but I have no idea what it could be.

Good Lucky Tony!

 

[iamzrad]

Hmmm, this sounds very familiar to what one of my fish experienced about two months ago. But it also sounds reversed as to how/where it happened.
Anyways, my Copadichromis azureus was developing this white skin loss on parts of his body and I couldn't figure out what it was. Some of his fins were rotting off, etc. Looked just awful. All other fish looked fine (my 125gal tank).
I took him out and put him in a hospital tank for about a month. No medications, just some salt on every water change. He healed up just fine. Then I put him back in the 125gal tank. After not seeing the tank for almost two weeks, I come back to do a big water change and noticed that the white spots and more fin rotting came back for him.
Which was very odd as to why it came back. Again, no other fish showed signs (and till this day have shown no signs).
I kept him in the tank and unfortunely he did not make it. I got really freaked out because I thought the other fish would of caught something from him.
And apparently, that was not the case. All fish are fine.
I'm wandering if it was the fish, himself, or my tank parameters. Kind of an odd and unsolved mystery death.

 

[Tony]

Doesn't sound like Columnaris to me.... but I have no idea what it could be.

Good Lucky Tony!

Sarah - Why doesn't it sound like columnaris to you? What's different?

Hmmm, this sounds very familiar to what one of my fish experienced about two months ago. But it also sounds reversed as to how/where it happened.
Anyways, my Copadichromis azureus was developing this white skin loss on parts of his body and I couldn't figure out what it was. Some of his fins were rotting off, etc. Looked just awful. All other fish looked fine (my 125gal tank).
I took him out and put him in a hospital tank for about a month. No medications, just some salt on every water change. He healed up just fine. Then I put him back in the 125gal tank. After not seeing the tank for almost two weeks, I come back to do a big water change and noticed that the white spots and more fin rotting came back for him.
Which was very odd as to why it came back. Again, no other fish showed signs (and till this day have shown no signs).
I kept him in the tank and unfortunely he did not make it. I got really freaked out because I thought the other fish would of caught something from him.
And apparently, that was not the case. All fish are fine.
I'm wandering if it was the fish, himself, or my tank parameters. Kind of an odd and unsolved mystery death.

Were the patches uniform or randomly placed on the body?

 

[DiscusnAfricans]

What kind of ailments make fish secrete excess or decreased skin mucus? The fish looked like they had some kind of skin condition, but no fin or tail rot. Other fish in the tank would show no symptoms at all, but it didn't seem to have a common link. Any guess whether it would be bacterial in nature? Didn't seem to be fungal.

 

[iamzrad]

Were the patches uniform or randomly placed on the body?

A bit random.

 

[SubMariner]

Need some pix Bro!

 

[Tony]

Hit both tanks with 1TBS per 5 gal non-iodized salt last night.

Here's a couple of pics of the afflicted fish. It's a bit tough to see.


Female P. spilonotus at top left of picture. This is the most pronounced case. Pattern is on both sides of the fish.

Champso (The fiddly-bits in the water - and in front of her lower jaw - are from just having scraped the glass). Sort of light patches on her back....

Copadichromis

 

[iamzrad]

Oh whoa. Mine were a lot more pronounced, almost like wounds that have no made it to the flesh just yet (there were hints of the red color around the sides, but mostly the wounds were white).

 

[Tony]

One more pic... more pronounced around the head.

 

[emartin]

Looks like it could be gray slime disease.

http://www.angelfire.com/blues/fish_problems/SLIMEDISEASE.html

A lot of websites suggest malachite green or formalin.

I had a similar spout on some new wildcaught fish I got a couple months ago. Nitrofurazone (Furan-2, Jungle Binox, etc) cleared it up.

Other meds that should work: Triple Sulfa, Tetracycline, etc.


Whatever medication you go with, I'd treat the whole tank and be prepared to have seeded bio media from another tank ready (start seeding a sponge filter if you have a spare one for example).

Doesn't seem lethal unless it gets out of control. In my case with gray slime disease it wasn't as bad and widespread as yours.

My med suggestions in order of preference:
Furan-2
Nitrofurazone (if you don't use furan-2 (which has it)). This is also the main ingredient in Jungle Binox (which is dirt cheap, see Jehmco and Kensfish)
Triple-Sulfa
Tetracycline

Oh, and 1cup seasalt/20gal of water. People say raising the temperature helps but I was able to clear it up no problem without raising the temperature.



Edit:
Just looked in my Fish Diseases book (Common Fish Diseases by Lance Jepson), all suspected causes of the generic term "white slime disease" is an external parasite similar to Ich (if I am reading correctly). So the salt definitely helps. If you want, use Clout to really nuke it.

Or, you can try this (if you don't want to medicate the main tank):
Remove the affected fish and treat them with Clout or QuIck Cure (quick cure is made by the same company not as strong as clout but similar ingredients) in a separate container and in the big tanks just raise the temperature to say 85F with lots of surface agitation and 1cup seasalt per 20g of water.

The heat and salt (I'd do that for at least a week, maybe two) should kill the freeswimming parasite in the tank and then the other fish you netted out get directly treated by the Clout.

 

[SubMariner]

Tony, in my opinion it's a some sort of slime parasite.

So I concur with Ed.

I knew it was some sort of parasite, but what you have is a relentless disease that doesn't go away easily. It's like one of those colds that just lingers for weeks so be patient with it.

Now Formalin, can be used to burn it off the fish. That's how strong Formalin is... it will literally burn parasites off the fish. For example, there are a handful of LFS's that use it when new fish arrive. What they do is remove the fish from the bags and into buckets and then proceed with using 7-9 drops of Formalin for about 5-10 minutes, but you have to get them out of there immediately because they will be in a lot of pain.
Parasites just fall off the fish like dandruff so it works sometimes.

Consequently, Tetracycline is typically used for Fin Rot,which has worked for me over the year and it might work for you.

However, Andrew from Scales turned me on to a med called BiFurant + by Aquarium Solutions. Great stuff, but it turns your water YELLOW, so you're going to need a hospital tank for the ones that are sick. It treats external diseases and is a Microbial Disease treatment for bacterial & protozoan diseases of aquarium and pond fish. It also treats internally too.

Here is a link to an article that Andrew wrote for one of our Biotope magazines.

http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2788

Scroll down through the Biotope to find "The Cichlid Hobbyist's Medicine Cabinet."

Try to remove the infected fish and treat them with what you believe is the best med we recommended.

Hope they get well soon,


RM

 

[golsama]

I agree that it doesn't look like columnaris. I purchased two gourami last year and the day after I brought them home I noticed white patches on their heads just in front of their dorsals. It got worse before it got better and ended up looking like big lesions. I asked around on some fish forums and post pictures, the general consensus was columnaris.

I'm in agreement that it looks like some sort of slime parasite. I hope the suggested treatments work for you.

 

[emartin]

However, Andrew from Scales turned me on to a med called BiFurant + by Aquarium Solutions. Great stuff, but it turns your water YELLOW, so you're going to need a hospital tank for the ones that are sick. It treats external diseases and is a Microbial Disease treatment for bacterial & protozoan diseases of aquarium and pond fish. It also treats internally too.

That sounds like it is a clone product of Furan-2.

Do you know who sells it (online)? I wonder if it's cheaper. If it has Furazolidone or Nitrofurazone or both in it I suggest it as an alternative to Furan-2 and Jungle Binox.

 

[Tony]

Raised temp and added salt. Going to stop by the LFS to grab some meds tonight.

BTW, wanted to correct a type-O. On the initial post, I reported the fish having come from ECC. I meant to type ACA, but was having a brain fart. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks again for all your help, guys.

 

[SubMariner]

That sounds like it is a clone product of Furan-2.

Do you know who sells it (online)? I wonder if it's cheaper. If it has Furazolidone or Nitrofurazone or both in it I suggest it as an alternative to Furan-2 and Jungle Binox.

Ed, BiFuran + does have both ingredients in it plus sodium chloride and synthetic polymers.

As for who sells it on online I really don't know, but I'm sure Big Al's, Pet Solutions, Dr. Foster n Smith and that Fish Place might have it. As for locally around the metro area Scales use to have it,but they no longer exist so if I was Tony I would call around.

Speaking of the ACA, one of my Electric Blue Ahli's that I picked up from their big auction came back with a parasite,but after keeping him in quarantine with the rest of the colony and now moving them to a separate tank they're doing just fine. Basically, I hit the tank with salt n Metro plus raised the PH significantly and now he and the others are doing just fine.

So BiFuran+ is especially made for Columnaris if you read Andrew's article.

Keep us up to date Antonio!


RM