Columnaris help!!!!!

[cichlidaddicted]

I am new here and need some advice very fast. I have a Malawi tank with numerous different species. My problem began a few days ago, five to be exact. It came on fast and strong i lost a strawberry, sunshine and borelyi in the first two days. Symptons began with some minor shredding of ventrical fins which became more severe and also began to clamp. The more advance symptom began as lips being white, and swollen with loss of appetite. Soon after the lips began to disintegrate, for lack of a better word. My firefish died today and his lips were gone infact his actual face was partially missing. A red top zebra and livingstonii are still alive but fading fast. I have been treating with maracyn plus a broad range antibiotic that claims to cure both gram positive and negative disease. Also i have been using pimafix and malachite green. I have also used salt dips which did seem to help but only in slowing the progression. Tried to cool the temp. With no avail due to the summer heat and also did several partial water changes. I am by no means positive but am leaning towards coumnaris the medication only seems to have slowed it down the first two fish were dead with in hours others have lived for a few days. The loss of fish is upsetting and the suffering of fish is saddening can someone please help i am out of ideas and don't want to be out of fish which have taken so long to aquire.
THANK YOU
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[neut]

From a source I respect regarding meds:
Article here
Re: Maracyn:

Erythromycin is considered primarily a gram positive treatment and should be used accordingly

Generally Erythromycin is not effective for most common aquatic diseases, especially in saltwater aquariums since it is primarily gram positive while the majority of aquatic infections are gram negative. Erythromycin is still useful for some diseases especially some of the more difficult gram positive infections such as Streptococcus, some cases fin rot and even some causes of Neon Tetra Disease (not all as this is more a symptom of several possible causes rather than an actual disease).

I find that Erythromycin (often in the trade named product Maracyn) is one of the most improperly recommended aquatic medications available (based on feedback from clients and reading forums, especially Yahoo Answers).
Although I have used this antibiotic with success, it is rarely a medication that I will go to first other than for specific diseases/conditions since it is limited in its aquatic effectiveness and is hard on nitrifying bacteria.

Re: Maracyn 2

Minocycline (like other Tetracyclines) is easily absorbed by calcium, making this a poor choice for saltwater or high GH freshwater aquariums (such as African Cichlids, livebearers), in these cases Kanamycin is the better choice.
The above point is often missed by well meaning aquarists (often in many forums that love to recommend Maracyn-2). The reason is that although Maracyn–Two (Minocycline) is a good product/medication when used in the right conditions for the right problem (of which it is relatively wide spectrum), the problem is that most aquariums I have either encountered or have been sent the water parameters for (emailed, etc.) have too high of a mineral level (GH over 200) for Minocycline to be truly effective.

Re: options for effective med combinations:

Aquatronics made excellent products, but unfortunately went out of business in the early 2000s for business reasons, not for lack of excellent reliable aquatic treatments; Nitrofurazone, Kanamycin, & Metronidazole was found in a few excellent products of theirs that are no longer available, but can be utilized by blending your own medications. Here are two that can blended:

*Aquatronics Spectrogram: Nitrofurazone can be combined with Kanamycin to make an even more wide spectrum treatment, especially for difficult cases of Columnaris or Aeromonas.

*Aquatronics Paragon 2;
Nitrofurazone OR Triple Sulfa can be combined with Kanamycin & SeaChem ParaGuard for a VERY strong fungal, & bacterial infection treatment.
Substitute Kanamycin with Metronidazole for an excellent parasitic, fungal, & bacterial infection treatment.

 

[cichlidaddicted]

So hard to find good mess anymore. Kanamycin is no where to be found for petco has run all LFS out of business and carries NO antibiotics. I have been using maracyn plus different from 1 and 2, sulfamethazine and trimethoprim are the active ingredients and not much can be found in writing regarding how effective it is. i have read that Nitrofuran would be second best after kanamycin but can't find this either. So frustrating thanks petco

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[neut]

Last time I wanted Kanamycin (Kana-Pro) it was nowhere to be found in my area, not even vets had it and lfs near me didn't seem to understand what it was. Had to order online, forget exactly where I got it, but I think you can get if on ebay these days.

 

[MarkK]

I am no expert but I suggest you pick up some Seachem Cichlid Salts if you don't already use it and add it to your tank at the reccommended dosage. If you already use some kind of cichlid salt, I suggest increasing the dose.

Also might want to increase your frequency of water changes.

 

[ezrk]

It is hard to say without pictures. But what you are describing could well be aggression. These sound very much like the symptoms that we see when a fish has been badly beaten up.

Particularly the missing lips, we have seen several fish that fight until the lips are ripped off and you can literally see their teeth. If pulled out to a hospital tank they will recover from this quickly.

If they are having severe swim bladder issues, an inability to keep themselves upright, our experience is that they are unlikely to survive. The clamped fins, loss of appettite, listlessness, etc are all things we see in fish fighting. We also often see signs of internal infection, bloody red streaks on the body etc (septicemia), the fins will often turn white and rot off (though this itself isn't too serious as they grow back fairly quickly).

The septicemia and swim bladder issues (which I suspect are related and indicative of serious infection) are what I think kills the fish.

 

[JasonC]

and don't forget water changes, water changes, water changes... 80 - 90% at least once a day.

 

[cichlidaddicted]

I have ruled out aggresson. It was the first thing i thought as well and i wish i didn't because it prolonged the time it took me to begin treating. The issue with the lips is like nothing i have seen before they begin totally intact just a bit lighter in color and soon fade to white with a bit of white fungus or fuzz then small pieces begin literally begin disintegrating until the lips are gone and this continues up the face almost like its being eaten away by acid. My last ditch effort was to begin soaking there food in the maracyn plus and it seems to be the only thing that has helped i feel as if its almost under control but it has been an expensive and exhausting effort i as soon as i get home i will post a pic of my red top ice blue who is the only remaining survivor other than the livingstonii whose massive appetite may have caused him to ingest enough maracyn to save his life.

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[cichlidaddicted]

Anybody have any ideas? Thanks to everyone else for your help.

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