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Does Prime Go Bad?

hollyfish2000

hollyfish2000

Members
I'm (again) fighting a nitrite spike in one of my tanks. I did a water change on Sunday and by Monday the fish were gasping and one was dead. I had not even opened any of the filter and didn't do a particularly aggessive job of vaccuming the gravel. I've been doing water changes, adding a sponge filter, swapping out one of the canisters with another tank and finally went and got some Safe Start.

This is very frustrating for me. I'm wondering if my Prime isn't working. I age the water, but sometimes not for an entire 24 hours. Even with aging, I still dechlorinate anyway. I have a new gallon of Prime, but it doesn't smell that weird Prime smell. And when I looked into the jug this morning, I saw a weird black cloudiness. When I did water changes this morning, I switched to a different dechlorinator.

I am very unhappy . . . :(
 
chriscoli

chriscoli

Administrator
I've had bottles of prime with no smell and with a black precipitate before. They SEEMED to work fine for me....
 
L

ltrepeter2000

Members
Holly

It may be that your local water company, like many in the area at the start of the school year, are flushing their pipes, which involves a switch from using Chloramines normally to using a high dose of chlorine. You might want to contact them to see if that's the case and what their schedule is for it and whether there is a notification list you can get placed on for these kind of water changes.
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
MoCo

ltrepeter2000 said:
Holly

It may be that your local water company, like many in the area at the start of the school year, are flushing their pipes, which involves a switch from using Chloramines normally to using a high dose of chlorine. You might want to contact them to see if that's the case and what their schedule is for it and whether there is a notification list you can get placed on for these kind of water changes.
Click to expand...
Holly is in Montgomery County, which does not use Chloramine, believe it or not.

Holly, are you sure you have a nitrite spike and not an oxygenation problem? Knowing you, you probably tested for nitrite, but I thought I'd ask. How is the flow from your filters?
 
chriscoli

chriscoli

Administrator
Hmm didn't realize that MOCO didn't use chloramines. I know that my area can get water from either the Potomac or the Patuxent plant. Normally my tap water pH is around 7.6, but for the past few months, it's been down around 6.7 which was a bit of a surprise. I noticed it when I did a waterchange and my Mbuna looked horrible (color loss and clamped fins).
 
DiscusnAfricans

DiscusnAfricans

Past President
Montgomery County water is all supplied by WSSC unless you receive from a private source. I believe their water reports are available online, but I haven't tried looking for them.

Maybe lower the water level in the meantime to increase oxygenation until you find the issue? Good luck
 
golsama

golsama

Corresponding Secretary
So sorry to hear you are having problems, Holly.

Did you do water changes in any other tanks or just the one? How are all of your other tanks doing?

I would try increasing oxygenation like Matt and Mike suggested.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
Chloramines

chriscoli said:
Hmm didn't realize that MOCO didn't use chloramines. I know that my area can get water from either the Potomac or the Patuxent plant. Normally my tap water pH is around 7.6, but for the past few months, it's been down around 6.7 which was a bit of a surprise. I noticed it when I did a waterchange and my Mbuna looked horrible (color loss and clamped fins).
Click to expand...

Why does my water smell bleachy?

Due to rain, ice and snowstorms, changing river conditions can produce strong bleachy odors. The strong bleachy odor is not an indication of increased chlorine. The odor comes from chloramines. They are created when the chlorine used to disinfect water and ammonia in the runoff water (rain, melting snow and ice) combine. Chloramines are not harmful, and, in fact, are used by some utilities as the primary disinfectant. However, under certain circumstances, chloramines produce a very strong bleachy odor. There are no adverse health effects from the odor.
http://www.wsscwater.com/home/jsp/content/qand-a.faces
 
hollyfish2000

hollyfish2000

Members
yes, definite nitrite spike as evidenced by the purple in the test tube . . .

yes, forgot to add that I also dropped the water level to get considerable water aggitation from the two (count them two) fluvals on this tank plus the added sponge filter

My other tanks are fine. I've gotten in the habit of just doing one water change a day and aging the water in between in a big plastic trash can in the fish room bathroom.
 
Becca

Becca

Members
I'm in MoCo too - not far from Holly. We did 30% on the 150 this weekend and saw no ill effects.

I think I may be in the minority, since I see that many folks do 50% to 70% a week, but I never change more than 20-30% a week in any tank unless it's looking REALLY bad. Overall, our fish have always done pretty well with this and we haven't had loss following changes. We don't use Prime - right now we've got Stress Coat in the basement, AquaSafe on the 2nd floor, and some other kind I can't remember the name of on the first floor.
 
verbal

verbal

CCA Members
Becca said:
I'm in MoCo too - not far from Holly. We did 30% on the 150 this weekend and saw no ill effects.

I think I may be in the minority, since I see that many folks do 50% to 70% a week, but I never change more than 20-30% a week in any tank unless it's looking REALLY bad. Overall, our fish have always done pretty well with this and we haven't had loss following changes. We don't use Prime - right now we've got Stress Coat in the basement, AquaSafe on the 2nd floor, and some other kind I can't remember the name of on the first floor.
Click to expand...

Are most of your tanks planted?
 
daninmd

daninmd

Members
hollyfish2000 said:
yes, definite nitrite spike as evidenced by the purple in the test tube . . .

yes, forgot to add that I also dropped the water level to get considerable water aggitation from the two (count them two) fluvals on this tank plus the added sponge filter

My other tanks are fine. I've gotten in the habit of just doing one water change a day and aging the water in between in a big plastic trash can in the fish room bathroom.
Click to expand...

but no ammonia spike? if the Prime was bad and was leaving chlorine in the water, I would think you would see both spiking. odd that is just the nitrite.
 
hollyfish2000

hollyfish2000

Members
I don't measure the ammonia. It doesn't matter if the ntrite is purple, that's sufficient information. When I see fish acting weird, I always go right to the nitrite test. If that's negative, then I test for ammonia
 
Avatar

Avatar

Plenipotentiary-at-large
Full stop

mchambers said:
Chloramines are not harmful...
Click to expand...


WTF???? Says who and in what context? Nothing about halogenated compounds that is generally good or "not harmful" with respect to life-forms, no matter what the producers and users say otherwise. Any chemical that systematically snuffs bacteria should not be consumed (antibiotics as needed get a a pass) or routinely contacted by otherwise healthful living organisms of any kind, vertebrate or no (gentle sanitizing agents exempted).

I routinely shake anything before I dose with it in almost any application (with the exception of nitroglycerin, napalm, champagne and carbonated beverages). Sulfur precipitate can be black but one should be able to get it back into solution by heating and/or agitation assuming there has not been too much evaporation - doing so shouldn't diminish it's efficacy for removing chlorine .

From Wikipedia:

Chloramines should be removed from water for dialysis, aquariums, hydroponic applications and homebrewing beer. Chloramines can interfere with dialysis, can hurt aquatic animals, and can give homebrewed beer a medicinal taste by forming chlorophenols. In hydroponic applications it will stunt the growth and fruit production of plants.

NH2Cl also has a very much lower, however still present, tendency than free chlorine to convert organic materials into chlorocarbons such as chloroform and carbon tetrachloride. Such compounds have been identified as carcinogens and in 1979 the United States Environmental Protection Agency began regulating their levels in U.S. drinking water. Some of the unregulated byproducts may possibly pose greater health risks than the regulated chemicals.

There is also evidence that exposure to chloramine can contribute to respiratory problems, including asthma, among swimmers. Respiratory problems related to chloramine exposure are common and prevalent among competitive swimmers.

While chloramination produces fewer regulated total halogenated disinfection by-products, it can produce greater concentrations of unregulated iodinated disinfection by-products and N-nitrosodimethylamine. Both iodinated disinfection by-products and N-nitrosodimethylamine have been shown to be genotoxic.
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
Who says it? WSSC. I was simply quoting to show that WSSC does not put chloramines in the water supply. I wasn't trying to make a bigger point regarding the health effects of chloramines.
 
dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
I'm baffled each and every time Holly has periodic nitrite spikes in her tanks, especially with the number of plants she keeps.

I live a couple of miles away and have the same water source and similarly don't have chloramines.

The presence of nitrItes means that the amount of ammonia present in the tank has overwhelmed the ability of the nitrifying bacteria to convert it to (less harmful) nitrAte....which is really unusual for a mature tank. I'm assuming that there are no dead fish rotting anywhere. Other pockets or pools of rotting stuff hidden in the substrate?

I know that Sam and others will freak out but..when is the last time you cleaned your canister filter(s)? That you can't see the crud (poop, uneaten food, etc.) accumulating in it doesn't mean that it's not there...

Matt
 
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