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When To Put Fish Outside

George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
I have evicted the Koi from their winter home. The pond is OK since it is in the ground.

What about other fish? Anyone have a rule of thumb to guide one on when it is OK to put out the fish that live in smaller quarters on the patio/deck/garden? Obviously it is a bit chilly for true tropicals but what about the heartier fishes.


George
 

Sonny Disposition

Active Member
I'd wait until at least May first, even for goodeids and Florida natives. Unless they're temperate species, they really don't like to go down to the 50s, and a sudden turn in the weather is still possible. Plus, even if the water temperature goes down into the 60s, you won't get much growth until the temperatures go up to the 70s.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GJR2 @ Apr 26 2008, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I have evicted the Koi from their winter home. The pond is OK since it is in the ground.

What about other fish? Anyone have a rule of thumb to guide one on when it is OK to put out the fish that live in smaller quarters on the patio/deck/garden? Obviously it is a bit chilly for true tropicals but what about the heartier fishes.


George[/b]
 

animicrazy

Members
As a general "standard operating practice" I don't put fish outside until trash day.

On the serious side though, I am giving a few brain cells the OK to think about a pond. I don't want goldfish - have to be either cichlids, stingrays, or maybe a regional mix.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Paul.
 

DeeCee

Members
Paul, I gotta admit you cracked me up with that "on trash day" comment! That was FUNNY!!!!

I love ponds, but haven't had one since moving to MD. In Illinois, I finally dug ponds deep enough for the shubunkins to live outside year-round, that pond was 9' deep though. I didn't add other fish to it until the night temps stayed over 60 on a regular basis, and then only added fish that were able to handle those temps. I never put heaters on the pond fish that HAD to come inside for the winter, and then only put them out on a day when the pond temp was close to the tank temps too.

I had best luck with big plecos (they got over 18" in the pond) and the paradise fish did really well also. They'd breed like crazy all summer long, and I'd only take the "keepers" inside for the winter and sell or give away the rest at the end of the summer.

George, if you dig that pond out deeper......... who knows?

DeeCee
(trying to keep the old Double O busy in his retirement HA!)
 

Sonny Disposition

Active Member
I've put fish outside for years. Think about what you want to accomplish. Do you just want to raise big flashy tropicals and bring them inside in the fall? Or is your objective to have something nice to look at? Goldfish and Koi are traditionally kept in ponds because they're hardy, yes, but also because they look good when you're looking down on them. They're fairly wide, colorful fish that look good when you look down on them. Most of the cichlids, however, are laterally compressed, and look flat and thin when you look down on them. Many smaller fish will also hide when they're outside.

Also consider temperature. If you have free standing tubs (not an inground pond with a liner), then the pond can get cool in the fall and spring--it's 52 degrees outside today--and really hot in the summer. 100 degree days are common in DC. Don't forget, too, that bright tropicals are easy for predators to see--cats, raccoons, and the occasional heron.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (animicrazy @ Apr 27 2008, 03:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
As a general "standard operating practice" I don't put fish outside until trash day.

On the serious side though, I am giving a few brain cells the OK to think about a pond. I don't want goldfish - have to be either cichlids, stingrays, or maybe a regional mix.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Paul.[/b]
 

animicrazy

Members
Thanks DC & Sonny Disposition !!

I was fantasizing (partially) (as in I have to dig the back yard up anyway; sooooo....) along two avenues. There are a bunch of big deep water fish in the rift lakes that I would think could, as in they are used to it, take colder temps - and thrive. Also, screen enclosures are pretty cheap and many have provisions for plastic walls - of course my ideal setup would be a deep water pond surrounded by an organic garden and covered by a geodesic dome; and a thick piece of acrylic over the pond with a round patio type table and chairs (now that's dreaming). As for heat, I've been reading a lot about materials that absorb and store solar heat, or waste heat from a generator, composter etc., and release it to where you need it - such as the pond in the winter.

The point of not seeing skinny fish is a good one, but if they get big enough - as they should - that might not be so bad. Also, the fact that many threatened species are threatened because they get big and then eaten by people adds a satisfying (to me & hopefully All fish keepers) aspect to the equation.

The next step would be to assemble a list of desirable fish and figure out what could live with what, not hybridize, and use all levels of the pond - kind of like a mini rift lake. Could even design a perimeter "river" with high flow rates for those type of fish. Temperature could really range from 50 - 60 at the bottom to mid to upper 70's at the top.

I could see fish from Malawi, Tanganyika, other African lakes and rivers, Central America, lower South America, and maybe other places. Maybe mix it up or not - depends on the hybrid factor.

So: Anyone ready to lend some brain power to the project? Digging the yard will commence in June - after graduation - once I start the dirt will be flying!

Paul.
 

Sonny Disposition

Active Member
You're very welcome.

Your project sounds like a feature for the Biotope.

RE: your geodesic dome--water would probably condense on it, giving rise to mold, which would cut back on light and so it would probably require frequent cleaning. You'd need to design it so you could be sure to reach all the surfaces.

With free-standing tubs, I've had the best luck with sailfin mollies. I filled the tubs with sea water made from instant ocean, and let them graze on the marine algae. I have a theory that sailfins grow bigger on marine algae than on freshwater algae. Since they're intertidal creatures, sailfins can well withstand extremes in temperature, whereas something that likes it a little cool, like goodeids, would probably boil and die.

Other candidates for yard tubs that I can think of offhand would be desert pupfish, and our Chesapeake Bay version, the Sheepshead topminnow. But, at the end of the summer, you'd have the same problem that I imagine Donna had with her paradise fish--a surplus of nasty little buggers to bring in in the fall.

One other point about ponds--most people think that the fish will thrive and do well on mosquito larvae. I don't think this is true. I've read of studies showing that mosquitos avoid ponds with fish in them. The theory is that after the larvae pass through the digestive system of a fish, chemicals are released from the fish waste that warn female mosquitos away. So you might need to feed your pond fish.

This is the same principle as "schreckstoff"--German for "fright stuff," I think. Studies have shown that native minnows will avoid an area where northern pike have been feeding on minnows. Again, chemicals are release from the pike's waste that the minnows learn to steer clear of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schreckstoff

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (animicrazy @ Apr 28 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Thanks DC & Sonny Disposition !!

I was fantasizing (partially) (as in I have to dig the back yard up anyway; sooooo....) along two avenues. There are a bunch of big deep water fish in the rift lakes that I would think could, as in they are used to it, take colder temps - and thrive. Also, screen enclosures are pretty cheap and many have provisions for plastic walls - of course my ideal setup would be a deep water pond surrounded by an organic garden and covered by a geodesic dome; and a thick piece of acrylic over the pond with a round patio type table and chairs (now that's dreaming). As for heat, I've been reading a lot about materials that absorb and store solar heat, or waste heat from a generator, composter etc., and release it to where you need it - such as the pond in the winter.

The point of not seeing skinny fish is a good one, but if they get big enough - as they should - that might not be so bad. Also, the fact that many threatened species are threatened because they get big and then eaten by people adds a satisfying (to me & hopefully All fish keepers) aspect to the equation.

The next step would be to assemble a list of desirable fish and figure out what could live with what, not hybridize, and use all levels of the pond - kind of like a mini rift lake. Could even design a perimeter "river" with high flow rates for those type of fish. Temperature could really range from 50 - 60 at the bottom to mid to upper 70's at the top.

I could see fish from Malawi, Tanganyika, other African lakes and rivers, Central America, lower South America, and maybe other places. Maybe mix it up or not - depends on the hybrid factor.

So: Anyone ready to lend some brain power to the project? Digging the yard will commence in June - after graduation - once I start the dirt will be flying!

Paul.[/b]
 

cyradis4

Members
My boss told me the other day that a friend of his had a fish pond, but had to keep replacing the fish as a gray heron liked to feed there.....

So he got tired of replacing fish and installed a motion activated sprinkler system. Guess what? He didn't have to replace any more fish!!!!!!

Later!
Amanda.
 

George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
I currently have a three foot deep pond. It really shouldn't be deeper than 18 inches in Fairfax county without a 6 foot fence I think. Gold fish will winter in it just fine. They tend to breed and over populate too. I hate gold fish. I now have some nice Koi in there and will soon add the bright orange Platys. Colorful livebearers work well outside. Bright red swords would be great. Koi might be able to survive outside but they will do better if you bring them indoors for the winter. I certainly wouldn't try to keep expensive Koi outdoors in less than a four foot deep pond.

(Dee Cee: 9 feet is only necessary in semi-inhabitable places like Chicago. You can get away with a lot less depth here.)

Most cichlids look drab from the top. The only good thing about keeping cichlids outside is when you bring them in, they are vibrant. They go back to their indoor color pretty quick though. I have also kept tetras in buckets and pots on the deck. As noted by Bob, you do have to find those that will take the temp changes. Planting heavily helps moderate temp changes. If you have a deck or patio, you can really have fun experimenting. I think TFH just had a nice article about that recently?

I'm going to take Bob's advice and probably wait until at least mid May. The pond is now hanging around 70 degrees though.

George
 

Sonny Disposition

Active Member
The way I would prevent predation of the mollies is by building a big rock reef in the center of the tub. When anything gets close to the pond, the fish will hide. After the first month or so, the water would turn green anyway, so the raccoons and cats couldn't see the fish



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyradis4 @ Apr 29 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
My boss told me the other day that a friend of his had a fish pond, but had to keep replacing the fish as a gray heron liked to feed there.....

So he got tired of replacing fish and installed a motion activated sprinkler system. Guess what? He didn't have to replace any more fish!!!!!!

Later!
Amanda.[/b]
 

DeeCee

Members
My Subunkins became the favorite meal of a heron. Keep in mind that this was in a small backyard pond. Pond was DEEP but he always managed to grab the biggest ones! GRRRRRRR :angry3:

DC
 

George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
My first pond attempt was when I lived in Florida (20+ years ago) . I got this thin blue liner from the local swimming pool guy and built an above ground thing in my backyard. It was about two hundred gallons. I had four or five nice Koi and had just started some water lillies.

The Blue Herron only managed to get two of the Koi but his sharp bill shredded the then liner draining the pond. All dead. Left me with a deep seated hatred of Blue Herrons. I tried again with a real liner but that sucker still got some of my fish from time to time. Finally managed to get rid of it with a decoy. Herrons are the enemy of all ponds.

George
 

longstocking

Members
But they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO pretty !

Bill used to do commercial ponds for a living ( not the work... just watched other people do it :lol: ). I'm talking about acre sized ponds ! You know... the ones in golf courses or down in Florida.
 
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