1. Don't forget to vote for your favorite picture in the Photo of the Month section.
  2. CCA Breaks the 1/4 million mark! Over 250,000 posts on the CCA forum!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Thank you for supporting the BIG Fish Deal 5. We had a great turn out. See you next year!
    Dismiss Notice

'Mystery' acara species

Discussion in 'New World' started by Acara19, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Acara19

    Acara19 CCA Members

    Real Name:
    Shane Z.
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Last Activity:
    Wednesday at 5:10 PM
    Hello, this is my first thread.
    Took me awhile to figure out how to post...
    Anyway, at this year's big fish deal, I got a pair of these strange golden acaras from Jeff Rapps. He sold them as "cichlasoma sp. 'rio esmeraldas gold' "
    I had the pair in a 10 gallon (they were both around 2-3 inches at the time) and they paired up immediately.
    in the first week I had them, they spawned. It was a small spawn at the base of their sponge filter. That spawn never hatched, as they ate them 2 days after laying them. Most of the eggs had already died and were covered in fungus.
    They spawned 5 more times after that, (on a regular basis of every 4 weeks or so) and all of those times unsuccessful. I tried leaving the fry with the parents, but they got eaten after 2 weeks. I tried separating them from the parents (once they hatched), but once they absorbed their yolk sacs they wouldn't eat that much, (I was giving them finely crushed pellets and flakes, as I couldn't find any actual fry food for them at any stores) and they would all die off at 2 weeks. As for the last 2 spawns- one spawn lasted for 3 weeks. The fry started developing color and actually looked like tiny fish- then the parents ate them. I figured out the process of breeding them- leave the babies with the parents for 2 weeks, then move them.
    They spawn for the last time, the babies live to 2 weeks, I'm ready to move them, then the parents eat them all the day I wanted to move them
    Recently, the pair got sunken bellies. i have been treating them with metroplex. I treated them both in the same tank, since they were both dealing with the same thing. The male got better before the female, (and before I realized it too) and he wanted to spawn. He started doing all his mating dances and nipping at the female. Of course she can't spawn since she's sick, so them male didn't like that and was just attacking her frequently. I moved her to what was supposed to be the fry tank, and she's been getting better since. Her fins are healing, she's a lot more energetic and I guess she's good now, except her fins.
    I probably won't put the pair together for awhile though, as the male Is almost twice the size of the female now.
    I could use some help / tips on breeding them, as well as identifying them. I don't have any good pictures of them, but I'll post pictures from Jeff. Another guy- ryansmith83 on youtube, has his own pair, and has had success breeding. (his fry are now 8 weeks old)
    I have been trying to identify these fish since I got them. If anyone has any thoughts on what they could be, that would be greatly appreciated.
    list of what I thought they would be:
    -blue acara (disproved with a fin ray count)

    -port acara (same amount of fin rays but doesn't look the same)
    -aequidens rondoni (Jeff said they haven't been in the hobby or america in decades so those are out of the question)
    Just a quick description of them:
    - Male has a whitish body and chin, with his head and back being a light gold color, he also has a bit of orange on his fins (his fins also have long extensions)
    -Female has a darker gold color on her head and back, her body and underbelly are more of a very pale orange with grayish fins
    -both male and female have long white pelvic fins that they use to rest (they extend them out and sit like a bipod, also the male has a bit of blue on his)
    -both male and female have a white band between their eyes
    -eyes are a light blue with bite of orange around them
    -dorsal fin ray count - 9 hard rays, 16 soft rays
    anal fin ray count - 4 hard rays, 8-9 soft rays

    sorry for such a long post...
    Thank you
     
  2. Acara19

    Acara19 CCA Members

    Real Name:
    Shane Z.
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Last Activity:
    Wednesday at 5:10 PM
    [​IMG]
    Here is a picture of one from Jeff.
    This is what they used to look like, but ryansmith83 has footage of more mature individuals:




    <--- a nice video of some adults
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaoqmHWAEL8&t=28s <--- adults with fry
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB3yaBY_qnY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spq7MTQiHPk&t=23s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoYRKueG1Cg <--- 8 week old fry

    I don't own any of these videos. Ownership of this footage goes to ryansmith83.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ryansmith83
     
  3. Acara19

    Acara19 CCA Members

    Real Name:
    Shane Z.
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Last Activity:
    Wednesday at 5:10 PM
    sorry about the videos, I thought they would just post as links...
     
  4. jonclark96

    jonclark96 Past CCA President
    Staff Member

    Real Name:
    Jon
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Frederick MD
    Last Activity:
    Today at 12:18 PM
    Welcome to the forum. The sp. Esmerelda gold are interesting little fish, but I'm guessing without someone spending the time and money on DNA analysis, we'll never really know if the are their own species or a leucistic strain of an already identifies species. I've followed Ryan's progress with them on several platforms (Facebook, Monster Fish Keepers) and his pair appears to breed true, in that all the fry came out looking like the parents. Ryan is a really good guy, and a good fish keeper as well, so any advice he offers is most likely good advice.

    As for breeding them, I'd treat them like other similar acara species. Water changes and good food and you should be good to go. I'd get them into a bigger tank, for sure. The bigger the better.
     
  5. Acara19

    Acara19 CCA Members

    Real Name:
    Shane Z.
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Last Activity:
    Wednesday at 5:10 PM
    Thank you for your reply. I am starting to speculate that these are a completely different species than what we know of... As Jeff got a whole shipment of them in when he got them. He said that the collectors got them from a lagoon near the rio esmeraladas river... Meaning there could 1. be a whole population of leucistic acaras or 2. these are a whole new species and their population is just secluded in that lagoon. It's pretty rare to get albino or leucistic fish in the wild, so I don't think there would be enough of them to make a whole big population of leucistic fish. Most likely this is a new species, either that or the collectors stumbled upon a rare population of golden acaras. [​IMG]
    They might be A.rondoni. Jeff said they haven't been imported in years, but I found the picture above... Looks preeeetty similar to my female. Long white pelvic fins, white between the two blue eyes, orange pectoral fins, and basically the same shape overall. (also again I don't own this picture, and I couldn't find the owner so I'm just going to say that this belongs to whoever took it)
    I'll try to get a picture of my male and female...
     
  6. Acara19

    Acara19 CCA Members

    Real Name:
    Shane Z.
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Last Activity:
    Wednesday at 5:10 PM
    As for tank size, they were doing well in their 10 gallon... Now they both have their own 10 gallons, until the female gets better and grows a bit bigger.
    (what was supposed to be) the fry tank is also 10 gallons. I did not intend to have lots of babies. Their spawn size only seems to go to about 250.
    As for spawning behavior- They spawn for me in a very strange way. These little guys are smart.
    After spawning a few times, they got the hang of it... I guess. Before the eggs hatch, they'll throw whatever food they don't eat on top of one of their caves. There the food just turns into this weird algae type thing. When the fry hatch, they spend about 3 days on their yolk sacs, then once they become free swimming they eat that weird algae stuff, as well as food that the parents give them. For their first week of life, The parents keep them in a pit. I would put in the crushed up flakes, the parents would eat it to see what it is, then spit it out at the fry, which then eat the food. The fry would basically eat anything that the parents gave them. Crushed up flakes, pellets, and even full sized brine shrimp that the parents chewed up.
    In the fry's second week of life, they would go around the tank in their little cloud eating whatever they could find off of surfaces in the tank. I had plants in there... which died... and that seemed to grow a ton of microorganisms, so there's a pretty good abundance of microorganisms in the main tank. During this time, natural selection takes its place... the weak and sick ones die off, and the parents would pick off and eat the fry that were weak or had birth defects. (some of the fry come out with or develop bent backs or misshaped tails)
    by 2 weeks there would only be bout 20 fry, all strong and healthy...
    I'm guessing the parents by then think they can live on their own or something... and like I said they would breed on a regular basis... lay eggs, rear the fry for 2 weeks, eat all the fry, lay eggs again 2 weeks later. I'm guessing in the wild they would chase them off or something... So that the fry don't stick around to eat the eggs...
    I know that smaller or baby fish like to eat eggs. I've seen sunfish guarding their eggs from hoards of smaller sunfish, and when I caught the guarding sunfish, the smaller ones would come in the feast on the eggs... I'm guessing that's why the parents would eat them. The next time I get them to spawn I'll move them at 2 weeks or sooner. I have food for the fry... I got some fry food from a nice guy at the last CCA meeting. The main tank is on a filter that sticks to the side with suction cups... water comes in from the bottom and out of this pipe on the top... There's a sponge type thing on the inside, so there's no way babies can get sucked up with it.
    Anyway, sorry again for such a long post...


     
  7. DiscusnAfricans

    DiscusnAfricans President
    Staff Member

    Real Name:
    Michael
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Randallstown
    Last Activity:
    Yesterday at 11:10 PM
    Interesting behavior and insight. No need to apologize for a long post, people don't have to read if they don't want to, but others might appreciate the detail.

    The problem with trying to guess what species it might be, is that its guessing. If Jeff Rapps doesn't know, it would be tough to find anyone that could say definitively. As Jon said, without DNA testing, you can't really be sure.

    Until it can be definitively determined, just make sure they're sold as the undescribed species Jeff Rapps labeled them as, the worst thing people can do is sell something they think it might be, without actually knowing.

    Thanks for the updates, look forward to seeing some juveniles available in the future.
     
  8. FishEggs

    FishEggs CCA Members

    Real Name:
    Matt
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Upper Marlboro, MD
    Last Activity:
    Today at 12:06 PM
    I agree with what DiscusnAfricans says although I didn't read his entire post. It was too long.:p:D

    Very nice looking Acara. Looking forward to seeing juvies in a future meeting auction.

    Best thing to do with long posts is break them into paragraphs to make them easier to read, just like you and Micheal did. Thanks
     

Share This Page