Hybrid Cichlids

[CichlidAddict]

Many kids started their first tank because of glofish. Nothing wrong with glofish if they can bring kids interest in the hobby.

Nothing wrong with long veils if they slow down fish movement. Fancy goldfish, long veil angels, and big tail guppies are appealing because of their slow and eloquent movement. Fish constantly dart around make me dizzy.

What make fancy goldfish appealing are the balloon shape and double tails. They resemble Victorian lady dressed in red skirt walking on high heel. They are appreciated even more when goldfish are viewed from above. If wild type is your preference, get cheap feeder goldfish.

Most artificial fish are from Asia and Taiwan in particular: flowerhorn, Thai Silk, blood parrot, glofish, dwarf shrimp of all colors. I heard glo angels from Taiwan will soon be available. Glo tetra and zebra do not interest me, but glo angels may as an alternative to colorful discus that are difficult to keep.

 

[CSnyder00]

Nothing wrong with long veils if they slow down fish movement.

I agree with everything you said above except this. The ONLY thing wrong with long veils is slowing or hindering the movement of the fish.

Put yourself in the fishes shoes for a moment. I just bred you to have extra long and unwieldy legs and arms that made it difficult for you to move around your world and secure food. You’d be pissed that I bred you in the first place because the only reason I gave you those extra long and low functioning features was for aesthetic purposes. Then you’d suffer the consequences of my poor decision to do so for the rest of your life.

A subset of this would be having slightly longer arms or legs that didn’t hinder you. This is fairly normal in the population and could even lead to some advantages. Fine. I have no issue with that. Most suffer no ill consequences from this.

If I bred you to be green but you were normal otherwise, eh, some people would probably be fine with it or even enjoy being different. At least you wouldn’t have any other negative side effects and could move about and be productive.

To each his own I suppose, but the mentality behind breeding or buying deformed or misshapen fish that affect their normal life is one that I fail to understand.

 

[mchambers]

We've owned a hybrid Toyota Camry for years. It's a great car.

 

[CSnyder00]

We've owned a hybrid Toyota Camry for years. It's a great car.

Nice way to break up the conversation Matt. Lol

 

[Pat Kelly]

We've owned a hybrid Toyota Camry for years. It's a great car.

I wont own a hybrid. I have to watch my techs work on hybrids and they are a pain to work on. lol

 

[CSnyder00]

I wont own a hybrid. I have to watch my techs work on hybrids and they are a pain to work on. lol

Yup. And dangerous to boot. When I was an advisor the first tool they shipped us when bringing out hybrids was a plastic hook. Grab the wrong wire or lead as a tech and you have to be pulled away by said hook, with slightly more voltage applied. Luckily we never had to use the hook while I was there.

 

[CichlidAddict]

Put yourself in the fishes shoes for a moment. I just bred you to have extra long and unwieldy legs and arms that made it difficult for you to move around your world and secure food. You’d be pissed that I bred you in the first place because the only reason I gave you those extra long and low functioning features was for aesthetic purposes. Then you’d suffer the consequences of my poor decision to do so for the rest of your life.

Long veil fish aren't bred to survive in the wild. They won't. In domestication, they get hand fed daily, and no need to be fast to hunt food or to escape getting hunted. The most majestic movement I've seen is a colony of long veil black angels.

 

[CSnyder00]

Long veil fish aren't bred to survive in the wild. They won't. In domestication, they get hand fed daily, and no need to be fast to hunt food or to escape getting hunted. The most majestic movement I've seen is a colony of long veil black angels.

I’m going to just agree to disagree on this point. Diversity within the hobby is okay and we don’t have to see eye to eye on everything to enjoy fish keeping.

Just to clarify, I’m not arguing the point of whether they would survive in the wild. Most fish bred in captivity wouldn’t. For that matter, most animals in general that are bred in captivity don’t have the skills to survive in the wild. Electric blue Jack Dempseys are only available in the hobby because they are separated once they are old enough to distinguish the color difference. If left together with their siblings, they get picked on and killed. I’m sure this would be true of many color morphs or other oddly colored fish we have in the hobby. Survival of the fittest at its finest.

The point that I’ve been making the entire time is that just because you see “beauty” in a particular fish doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable or responsible to breed it.

And again I’ll state as I did before that long fins or veil tails are fine with me as long as they don’t restrict the natural movements of the fish. Limiting another animal’s ability to move or live naturally for your enjoyment is where I draw the line, but your line might be different, and that’s fine. We can be different and I’m happy to have discussions like this that stay civil and have differing viewpoints.

We have gotten a bit off topic from the OP anyway. Hybrid cichlids was the topic I believe.

 

[zendog]

Ligors, Wholphins and Pizzlies, oh my!

I always find this a very interesting discussion. While I own no longfins, balloon bodied fish or flowerhorns, I have nothing specifically against them and think they are fine if people want to keep them even though I personally am not a fan. Whether we're really talking about line/selective breeding for specific traits or crossing actual separate species, I just can't buy into the argument about suffering, etc. unless there is some scientific measurement showing they are in physical pain. Does a longfin betta know it is slow? How does it live with the shame?

If we think it is morally wrong to breed something that is inherently weaker, less agile or more susceptible to disease or injury, we shouldn't breed electric blue jack demseys, etc. at all. In fact we would be morally bound to go the other direction. We should always breed for maximum vigor, strength and longevity, regardless of looks. We should be selectively breeding toward a super dempsey!

How about purebred dogs? We've all heard that mutts are usually healthier, particularly compared to breeds like French Bulldogs who, I've heard, often can't breath right without an operation on their nose and are only born by cesarian section of their mothers. Plus have you ever heard the sound those things make when they're trying to bark! But I've seen people walking them and the dogs seem happy and their owners, miraculously, seem to love them. I prefer my Gerbarian Shusky, but that's just me.

To the original poster's question, I think hybrids clearly have a place in the hobby. People should identify them as such and let people choose for themselves. I bred electric blue acaras for a while and enjoyed them. If someone wants to keep blood parrots or those freaky bubble-eyed goldfish, I'm okay with that. I just hope they'll give them clean water, good nutrition and a large enough tank. I'm more concerned with people buying those cute little plecos at Petco to put in their 10 gallon tanks, when the person selling it knows just how big it will get.

 

[stany]

Cory, you took my comments the wrong way. I am drawn to naturally beautiful fish, Fish that appear in nature without genetic engineering but I also understand some can be drawn to the strains genetically engineered. We pick and choose what fish we keep based on personal preference, probably among other motivations. I'm not going to tell someone what to spend their money on.

I wanted an all male tank because I didn't want to deal with the whole breeding thing and partly because some said it could not be done. My reference to Art collecting is spot on as you have to buy what you like or you are always dissatisfied with your decisions. Been there. I was not comparing animal husbandry to collecting art in a right or wrong's in the fish industry, but that there are choices and it's not my position to tell people what they like. I personally I do not like Flowerhorn's, Glowfish, etc.but It's not my job to tell someone they are screwing up the hobby because they encourage the breeders of Frankenstein fish by their purchases. I would hope those who want to breed the endangered natural species do so we can enjoy them longer.

You seem to be against those that breed to attributes that make's the fish's life more difficult. I'm 100% with you brother. I think as keepers of fish we have a responsibility to do our best to make them happy. AND I think my show tank is my work of art..