How do I keep my pH stable in my shrimp tanks?

[captmicha]

I've found out that my pH is rising from a 6.5 pH to a 7.4 pH at night. I think it's killing some of my sensitive shrimp, like my berried Tangerine Tigers.

I can't test my KH in these tanks right now bc for some reason, the reagent in the bottle is orange (it's supposed to be blue, it's API and not expired yet).

But my water during the day is 6.5 pH, 3 KH and 8 GH. No ammonia or nitrites.

Established tanks. Every other parameter is stable, even the TDS at 170 ppm.

I have lots of plants in my shrimp tanks, inert substrate, air driven sponge filters, heaters at 68 degrees, and leaves and in some of them driftwood. No other hardscape.

But none of that seems to make any difference, they're all at 7.4 pH at night.

I thought pH typically falls at night? But mine is going way up.

I'm not sure what to do. I'm worried peat moss will cause very low dips during the day. I'm also not sure how much to use.

I'd really like to understand this pH rise and a way to keep it stable. I can't raise KH bc it's not great for the shrimp.

 

[captmicha]

I can't figure out how to edit my post but since the last time I've checked my KH about a month ago, it's now at a 0 from a 3 degrees. It turns out my reagent is working but KH is so low that it doesn't even turn the water blue.

I have no idea what happened to the KH in my water supply and what to do about this.

Anything to raise the KH would make my pH even higher and possibly my GH too. But how else do I stablize it?

 

[Becca]

If that's killing your tangerines you're doing something wrong. That's normal range for them.

 

[Becca]

Also, Tangerines don't need Kh. You're plants are probably utilizing the minerals for nutrients. My planted tanks have lower TDS than my tap.

 

[captmicha]

If that's killing your tangerines you're doing something wrong. That's normal range for them.

I've since been testing at different times of night and pH has swung up to at least a 7.6. I have to try my high range kit to find out exactly how high.

I realize it's normal range, but wouldn't a swing from a 6.4 all the ways to a 7.6 (or possibly more) be a lot of change in a relatively short amount of time for them?

The deaths seem to be occuring at night. I witnessed one where all of a sudden, a berried female Tangerine dropped to the bottom of the tank on her back. She spent a lot of time on her side and back, twitching. Color more opaque. They all look great until this point, and I haven't exposed them to any other shrimp. These are well established tanks.

They're getting berried... But it seems to make them more weak and I've lost all of the berried ones and one unberried one.

No other kinds of shrimp have died, but I do observe some of my Blue Diamonds kind of shivering and then jumping sometimes. Only one of them has become berried.

I keep Baulbatis in the same tank and I've seen more breeding from those guys...

My kH test turns out to be working, it's at 2 degrees. My water used to be at a 3 degrees for years without these pH swings.

This seems to be a new(ish) problem and I'm not sure what's the cause or how to find out.

I'm talking about my water directly from the (tap) source as well as in the tanks with plants. It's well water with nothing added or done to it.

I haven't been fertilizing most of my shrimp tanks.

I haven't had deaths in any of my other shrimp tanks. (Or unbuffered fish tanks.) BUT breeding amongst the shrimp has been slower and there's been fewer babies. However, I've also been keeping my shrimp tanks cooler than I used to. 68 when I used to do 75, I know that makes a huge difference in reproduction.

Species: Painted Reds, Wild Type Neos, Malawa, Blue Diamonds, Baulbatis, and Tangerine Tigers. All yours.

I really can't think of anything that I've done different for the Tangerines.

Btw, I know the problem is on my end, not with your stock. Just wanted to make that known.

 

[Frank Cowherd]

Maybe it is food. Maybe they need more food or a different kind. And more decaying stuff in the tank would produce acid, possibly mitigating the swing to high pH.

 

[Becca]

Yeah, if you're feeding too much protein, that might be an issue. Usually the day/night thing is a direct result of having a planted aquarium. Of course, your pH is doing the opposite of what it normally would. When are you running your lights? Are you running CO2? This might be a GWAPA question.

 

[captmicha]

Maybe it is food. Maybe they need more food or a different kind. And more decaying stuff in the tank would produce acid, possibly mitigating the swing to high pH.

Frank, can you think of anything that might be causing my pH to rocket up at night? Phosphorus maybe?

Chemistry is definitely not my wheelhouse.

I forgot to mention that I'm not using any kind of CO2. Pressurized or liquid.

It's not limited to just my tanks, but is also going on with my water from the source, which we're not treating.

I have well water and it's also having these swings when I measure it. I've let it gas off and also tested ungassed off.

This didn't used to be the case, it used to be a stable 6.5 pH no matter what time of day I would test it.

I'm getting the same exact readings in my tanks as I'm getting from the source (the tap).

What degrees of KH is needed for a stable pH anyways?

It's been hard to find solid information, I've been doing a bunch of reading and posting elsewhere. (Not that I've grasped all of it!)

 

[captmicha]

I'm not feeding too much protein, I don't think.

I'm feeding NLS Shrimp and on other days, I'm feeding a "super green" powder of spirulina, wheat grass, chorella, amla, barley grass, spinach and kale. And nori about once a week for iodine, and small pieces of blanched veggies.

They have biofilm, leaves, and driftwood.

I have LED 6500k on three of my shrimp tanks for 6 hours and window lighting on the other three.

But the tanks and my well water from the source are all the same in regards to the same parameters, including the swings at night.

I've been testing both with API and my pH meter just to be sure.

 

[Frank Cowherd]

I do not know what possible gasses could be in the well water, but your county farm extension service should know.

I know of a guy in WV who had methane in his water and it could ignite like in his bathroom when he was taking a shower, so he had to be very careful. He found out because he was loosing fish for no apparent reason until he found out about the methane. Methane displaced the oxygen and the fish were asphyxiated.

Plants consume carbon dioxide so when the lights go off the plants quit taking it up and the pH goes down, not up.. Both plants and fish respire CO2 when the lights are out.

If you have a canister filter that is really a bio filter, it produces acid when in normal operation. If you turn it off at night, the pH will rise (because you stopped the acid going into the tank) if there are carbonate rock or substrate in the tank. But I know of no one who turns off filters at night.

If it is happening in your tap water, you have a real mystery. I would call your farm extension agent and see what they know.

However, if your water smells strongly, perhaps hydrogen sulfide is the problem. If it leaves the water, the pH should go up. H2S smells like rotten eggs. There are other sulfides that could be naturally occurring in well water. I think iron sulfide is a possibility.

 

[captmicha]

I'm running all sponge filters (air driven) in these tanks. And HOBs on the others.

Thanks so much! I have some leads to pursue now to get to the bottom of this. Hopefully, it's something that can resolved. Sigh. My water was perfection!

I do not know what possible gasses could be in the well water, but your county farm extension service should know.

I know of a guy in WV who had methane in his water and it could ignite like in his bathroom when he was taking a shower, so he had to be very careful. He found out because he was loosing fish for no apparent reason until he found out about the methane. Methane displaced the oxygen and the fish were asphyxiated.

Plants consume carbon dioxide so when the lights go off the plants quit taking it up and the pH goes down, not up.. Both plants and fish respire CO2 when the lights are out.

If you have a canister filter that is really a bio filter, it produces acid when in normal operation. If you turn it off at night, the pH will rise (because you stopped the acid going into the tank) if there are carbonate rock or substrate in the tank. But I know of no one who turns off filters at night.

If it is happening in your tap water, you have a real mystery. I would call your farm extension agent and see what they know.

However, if your water smells strongly, perhaps hydrogen sulfide is the problem. If it leaves the water, the pH should go up. H2S smells like rotten eggs. There are other sulfides that could be naturally occurring in well water. I think iron sulfide is a possibility.