High End, Hi-Fin Swordtails
- Thread starter Hicgup
- Start date
DiscusnAfricans
Past President
I didn't realize those were wild type, I would've thought they were line bred.
Sorry for any confusion, they are a cross of an imported line from China-with a domestic line bred (many generations) hi-fin that I got from a big U.S. livebearer breeder. So, my bad, in that I am not claiming these are one generation from wilds (hardly the case, by all means). I have been using the F1 designation on my tanks just to differentiate them from the pure Chinese fish, of which I am keeping two lines.
b considine
a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude
As a cory keeper, cross breeding is a no-no. But it fascinates me.
Just so I follow: You've crossed a Chinese strain with a domestic strain and the photos are the results. Have you crossed male Chinese with female domestic and vice versa? If so, was there a difference in offspring? Have you then bred fry from either pairing to see if the traits you wanted stay fixed?
I've heard that, over time, line bred strains lose their vigor. Have you seen any of this in your breeding efforts?
In any event, this is an interesting experiment. Please update this thread as you progress. I'm subscribed.
Blaise
Just so I follow: You've crossed a Chinese strain with a domestic strain and the photos are the results. Have you crossed male Chinese with female domestic and vice versa? If so, was there a difference in offspring? Have you then bred fry from either pairing to see if the traits you wanted stay fixed?
I've heard that, over time, line bred strains lose their vigor. Have you seen any of this in your breeding efforts?
In any event, this is an interesting experiment. Please update this thread as you progress. I'm subscribed.
Blaise
DiscusnAfricans
Past President
Thanks for the clarification on the breeding designation, makes sense.
The Chinese line of fish is a fairly in-bred Hi-fin swordtail that develops a VERY full dorsal referred to as Cauliflower. I paid $75 a pair for the original breeders. I was a little concerned that since the fish were fairly in-bred, that they may start presenting too many problems. I acquired a trio of very nice U.S. Hi-fins from a very reputable high end breeder at a cost of about $150 a trio shipped. Both strains are domesticated hi end Hi-Fin swordtails, but I "Crossed" the two lines to start an intermediate strain. In the meantime I am keeping an A and a B line of pure Chinese blood fish. If I decide to spend the dough, I might get a trio or two pairs of Arnoldi swords, a "wag" type, but very definitive genotype, with the idea of "crossing" these with the Cauliflower dorsal fish to get a blood red sword with a black cauliflower dorsal, something I have not yet seen. So far the Arnoldi fish are running $150 to $200 for two pairs, not including shipping.
Blaise, speaking of line breeding and vigor, and not hybridizing species, there is a facility in Texas selling WILD origin swordtails, with collection points. I think one species is now 78 generations line bred-no problems!
Blaise, speaking of line breeding and vigor, and not hybridizing species, there is a facility in Texas selling WILD origin swordtails, with collection points. I think one species is now 78 generations line bred-no problems!
Leffler817
CCA Members
I too am not a fan of hybrid fish and purposely creating hybrids. I do not think you are, but there’s a difference in selective breeding. I’m also curious to see where this experiment goes.
b considine
a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude
Intriguing....
Blaise
Blaise
OKAY, so I did not pay close enough attention that my op was in SPECIES TALK, and I am really talking about domestic strains of swordtails. But to make up for it, here is the link to a FANTASTIC facility if you are into wild swordtails.
I have talked to them about their fish (run about $30 a pr on avg.) and got this reply in one of my emails:
"We have 3 species that are thought to be extinct/endangered in the wild - X. couchianus, X. meyeri, and X. gordoni. Our X. couchianus line has been inbred for around 90 generations and they breed pretty well."
Just goes to show that if you line breed, in-breed correctly you can keep it going for a long time.
And here is the link: (Wish there was something like this for N.A. Central Cichlids!)
http://www.xiphophorus.txstate.edu/
I have talked to them about their fish (run about $30 a pr on avg.) and got this reply in one of my emails:
"We have 3 species that are thought to be extinct/endangered in the wild - X. couchianus, X. meyeri, and X. gordoni. Our X. couchianus line has been inbred for around 90 generations and they breed pretty well."
Just goes to show that if you line breed, in-breed correctly you can keep it going for a long time.
And here is the link: (Wish there was something like this for N.A. Central Cichlids!)
http://www.xiphophorus.txstate.edu/
DiscusnAfricans
Past President
Just have to be clear about "wild-type" as they're not actually selling wild fish. Not criticizing anything, just clarifying for anyone else that might be interested. Looks like a great place, and its nice they're preserving stock from fish that are now thought to be extinct.
YEP, you are absolutely right, and thanks for pointing that out. Would hate for somebody to think they are getting wild caught fish. The wildness in their fish is that they are pure descendants from wild fish. Some of which, as they pointed out, no longer exist in the wild.
I guess I'm off my game today. Usually I am a stickler about verbal details!
Like I said, I should have been paying closer attention when I started this thread.
Thanks DiscusnAfricans!
And speaking of truly wild fish and Discus, do you know anything about W B Sabby?
(A Japanese co. that collects and exports their own discus from Brazil)
Appears that they have a good reputation for supplying good quality wild discus, not just charging for good quality wilds, and shipping inferior fish to U.S. market, while the truly high quality stuff goes to Japan.)
Looks like there is an opportunity for someone to enter into a relationship with them.
MHMoro
CCA Members
The Xiphophorus (swordtails and platys) facility at Texas State University at San Marcos, TX is a unique facility in the world dedicated to preserve and study an animal model for genetics and certain types of human cancer (melanoma). That will explain why it is funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
DiscusnAfricans
Past President
I had never heard of them before, but did a quick google search and they seem to have a good reputation. I don't know if there is much of a demand for wild discus in the club, there are several domestic importers and producers of the ornamental strains that seem to be much more popular. On the whole, I think the number of people in the club who keep discus is relatively low, or at least who might purchase new discus. Thanks for the info though, anyone searching discus on the forum might see this thread and look into that company.
Do you have any of these for sale? I would love to purchase them even cull would work. Been looking for these for a few years.
mchambers
Former CCA member
Do you have to pay tariffs on the offspring? 
Im trying to figured out what this message mean.Do you have to pay tariffs on the offspring?
mchambers
Former CCA member
Maybe you don't know that the current administration has imposed tariffs on the import of many things from China?
It was just an attempt at humor, hence the winky face emoticon.
Haha I see. My impression was OP has those fish here in USA. Hoping to find something here that has F1 or anything close of all red including eyes. Low grade is fine.
DiscusnAfricans
Past President
He does, but this post was 16 months old, so don't know if its still an active breeding project of his. You can try contacting him via PM, I'm not sure he's been active on the forum lately.
