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De-Chlorinator?

Beanie Seagus

Beanie Seagus

Members
Hi Guys,

So here's the deal, I've been sticking to 20-25% water changes in all my tanks, but I have not been using a de-chlorinator. So far, so good, the fish seem happy, and most actually seem to enjoy the water changes.

I spoke to quite a few people at the meeting however, who think i'm crazy, and taking a huge risk by not adding a de-chlorinator during water changes.

I certainly am a little afraid of chlorine harming my fish, but i'm also a little afraid of using chemicals of any kind, and don't want to add something to my system.

Theres also the prevailing notion of, "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but maybe i've just been getting lucky so far?

Here are the actual questions,

1) what does de-chlorinator do besides simply help break down chlorine and molecules with chlorine in them?
2) is there any risk that my fish and plants won't like de-chlorinator and react badly to it?
3) What brand of dechlorinator is best? I've got a big jug of Kordon sitting around, so if its good enough, that would be what i use.

Thanks for your help all!
 
dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Small water changes without dechlor probably won't be an issue, unless there is a higher than usual concentration of chlorine in the water or you've got chloramine.

One of our speakers (Dan Woodland as I recall) said he does daily 10% drips without dechlorinating.

The risk goes higher the larger the water change and I tend to do 30-50% per week on some of my tanks.

That said, I use Chloram-X and love the stuff. A container of it lasts a long time, it doesn't stink like Prime. You're rolling the dice without using it...

Matt
 
DBLN8

DBLN8

Members
I can subscribe to "if it's not broke don't fix" but if your not using a dechlorinator I think your increasing the chance of something going wrong in your tank. The amount of water you take out may not change from week to week but the amount of Chlorine your local water company add's to the water might, and maybe one day one won't cancel the other out.

I use Safe (powdered form of Prime $30 for a 2lb jug on Amazon) It will last me a few years.
 
A

abcdefghi

Members
Not used any dechlorinator in my tank for several years now.

But, then I don't have any chlorine in the water to begin with. We have well water, some people have said I should still use something in case of heavy metals etc in the water. However, it's likely at least 7 years since I used any and I have no plans on changing that.
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
Beanie Seagus said:
I guess the question is, is there any risk to using a dechlorinator? What in theory could go wrong?
Click to expand...
Chlorine is a disinfectant. It kills things. It can burn a fish's gills. Do a 75% water change and you'll find out.

I don't know where in Maryland you are, but in Montgomery County, the water system uses chlorine. In DC and most of NoVa, the systems use chloramine. In either case, most of us use a dechlorinator. It will break the chlorine-ammonia bond and then detox the chlorine and ammonia.

Matt Quinn uses Chloram-X, but I'd guess the majority of folks here use either Seachem Prime or Seachem Safe (I love the smell of Safe in the morning). Both are inexpensive and do the job. Prime is a liquid, and easy to dose properly. Safe is a powder, and more economical, but the difference doesn't matter unless you have quite a few tanks or some really big ones.

Personally, I'd buy some Prime and use it. Your 25% changes don't seem too be doing any harm, but you can't be sure. And if one day you have a problem with water quality (sooner or later it happens to all of us) and need to do a big change, you'll need a dechlorinator.
 
Beanie Seagus

Beanie Seagus

Members
So what if any are the potential down sides of using a dechlorinator? I'm not opposed to using a dechlorinator... i just certainly don't want any harm to come to my fish or filter.

Also, I just got three quarters of a gallon of the following:

NovaAqua Plus: Water Conditioner with Echinacea, Vitmans and Anti-Virus Protection.

What do you guys think of using that?
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
The theoretical downsides are two, as far as I know. First, if you use too much dechlorinator, you'll deplete the oxygen on the water. But you can use up to 4x the recommended dose of Prime without harm, supposedly. Second, a few people think that the dechlorinator is a bad thing to have in the water, I heard a speaker at PVAS say this last year. He recommended using Vitamin C. I'm skeptical, to say the least.

I haven't used the dechlorinator you have. It's probably fine. Sounds like it has stuff that isn't necessary (Echinacea, Vitamins and Anti-Virus Protection), but I doubt there's any harm.
 
finzz

finzz

Members
When I was on public water I never used any type of dechlorinator and didn't have a single problem, even with high-percentage changes. However, once I'd moved and was using well water, a friend told me about what happened when the water department changed the dosage and additive it used for the hotter months. Evidently, at least at the time, public works didn't have to inform the end users that the formula had changed and she'd lost a lot of fish. I can't recommend any products, but I can suggest that you do use something, or keep very up to date on what your public water system is doing.
 
CSnyder00

CSnyder00

Bearded Wonder
I think a short summary says it all.

Using it has very few side effects if any, and only when you use it in massively improper proportions. It can save your fish from chlorine and other harmful things in public tap water

Not using it opens yourself to huge issues if your public water supplier adds something new or changes dosages. You also may be doing damage to your fishes gills without knowing, which can cause mysterious fish deaths.

Better safe than sorry with the amount of tanks you have running and the amount of money in fish you own.

Addition thought, all you are doing is removing something that these fish don't have in their natural water sources. By adding dechlorinator, your just giving them the equivalent of fresh air without contaminants.
 
dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Just use watch you've got :)

mchambers said:
The theoretical downsides are two, as far as I know. First, if you use too much dechlorinator, you'll deplete the oxygen on the water. But you can use up to 4x the recommended dose of Prime without harm, supposedly. Second, a few people think that the dechlorinator is a bad thing to have in the water, I heard a speaker at PVAS say this last year. He recommended using Vitamin C. I'm skeptical, to say the least.

I haven't used the dechlorinator you have. It's probably fine. Sounds like it has stuff that isn't necessary (Echinacea, Vitamins and Anti-Virus Protection), but I doubt there's any harm.
Click to expand...
 
JLW

JLW

CCA Members
Even trace amounts of residual chlorine in the water can harm fish, though the harm may not be visible. It certainly can stress them. Chlorine is a gas, even in the water, and it'll attack the gills of the fish. While small amounts may not outright kill them, you're basically hitting them with mustard gas every water change.

With that said, you *can* get rid of chlorine (but not chloramine) by aerating. Since chlorine is a gas, aerating your water vigorously will drive it all off. Really, we should be aerating water before putting it into the aquarium to reduce nitrogen bubbling anyhow. You can also get rid of chlorine by letting it sit out still, but that'll take significantly longer.

The most common chemical used in dechlorinators is Sodium Thiosulphate. There are quite a few others that will work, but this is the standard. It is not licensed for use with food fish, however, as it is actually a bioaccumulating carcinogen. That sounds scary, but it has never been shown to have any deleterious effects on fish. Just that some of it get stuck in their fat, and if you then eat the fish, it increases your chances of getting cancer. This is one of the (many, many, many) reasons why anyone who eats fish out of their aquarium is an idiot.

However, when properly used, sodium thiosulphate is actually removed with chlorine. You do not need to really worry, unless you're putting large doses in. For the record, we generally use too much dechlorinator. Think about it. If you're making dechlorinator, and recommend 1 drop per gallon, that one drop had better take out ALL of the chlorine in EVERYONE'S water at ALL times, or you're going to get sued. That means it needs to take out the chlorine in Flint, MI water just as well as Pristine Village, VT. That means it needs to take out all the chlorine that's in your water during spring (when its highest), even though the levels of chlorine are lowest (in winter). I would guess, and don't sue me if I'm wrong, that you can use 1/4 dose of dechlorinator in winter and a half dose the rest of the year with no ill effects.

You can use vitamin C to remove chlorine. The reaction is pretty well known, and it *does* work. However... the junk you're buying is probably not vitamin C. While it may literally contain no vitamin C, it will also contain various binders, preservatives, flavouring, colouring, and chemicals to make it better absorbed by the human body (btw, if you need vitamin C, eat an orange. Vitamin C pills = expensive pee).

All these "extras" that make vitamin C into something you're willing to fork over a lot of money for, they may or may not be good for the aquarium. I don't know, and that's what worries me. Human beings are very different organisms than fish, and in theory, there could be ingredients that benefit humans but kill fish. Plus, since you probably don't know what your purity or efficiency of your vitamin C is, you can't possibly know what the dosing is. So, you're either leaving trace amounts of chlorine in the water (mustard gassing your fish), or you're overdosing, and all that acid and carbon is going to cause problems.

Either way, you're using something for an off-label purpose, and that means you assume the liability and risk. Not worth it.

Plus, I imagine it's a lot more expensive. Someone else can figure out the price comparison between powdered vitamin C (Ascorbic acid) and powdered sodium thiosulphate (e.g., Safe) and their various efficacy.
 
dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Absolutely.

I use this from JEHMCO:
ClorAm-X
Dry powder
water treatment

Removes Chlorine, Chloramines and Ammonia.
Use as water conditioner by adding directly to tap water, no stock solution necessary.
Available in bulk boxes of:
5 LBS (treats 18,794 gallons)
10 LBS (treats 37,588 gallons) and 25K

Product #

Description

Price

CHLAX-5

ClorAm-X, 5 LBS.
chlorine, chloramines, ammonia

$37.00

CHLAX-10

ClorAm-X, 10 LBS.

$63.50

“ClorAm-X” is completely safe and has even been granted FDA approval for use on Food Fish for human consumption. Effective for up to 72 hours for situations such as shipping fish or quarantine.
Use salicylate based test kits to test for the presence of Ammonia in ClorAm-X treated water.


Rajiv said:
Hey,
I recently came across this youtube video which suggested using Sodium Thiosulfate as dechlorinator. You can buy it for really cheap on ebay.
You can mix 4 oz with 1 gallon of H2O and use as 2 drop per every gallon of water added.
It is very cheap alternative (about $6 for 4oz)compared to Prime and other stuff.
Check out the ebay link here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-SODIUM-...736178?hash=item465b3255f2:g:KcIAAOSwSzdXBdRn
Click to expand...
 
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