• You liked BFD7 now you should join this forum and of course become a club member to see what CCA is all about.
  • Thank you to everyone who registered and showed up for the BIG Fish Deal #7.

Ray tank size

npbarca

Members
So after some researching and thinking, I've decided to look into the option of reducing the number of tanks and focus on one large show tank. My initial thought is to have a large amazon/South American biotope with a ray. The big questions, preferably from you Ray keepers, is what is the minimum size tank for the smaller South American/Amazonian rays?
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
if you want something that stays small you have a few options
potamotrygon reticulata
potamotrygon motoro "marbled"
potamotrygon scobina
potamotrygon hystrix

All of the above fish have their pros and cons.
Potamotrygon reticulata get to about 14" disc length on adult females. These guys have unaturally long tails so keep that in mind. The males stay smaller. These guys are extremely slow growing and are some of the pickiest eaters. Mine would only eat live blackworms and on ocasion nibble at the frozen blackworms. Thats it. They have cool paterns when they are young but they slowly lose them when they get older. These are the cheapest ray around. Most lfs get in tiny, malnurushed specimens that are extremely difficult to rear back to full health. I've succesfully done this twice but on multiple occasions, I thought they where going to die just because they kept refusing all foods. If you get one of these, make sure that you can feed them at least once (prefferabely twice) a day with live blackworms while they are small. They are pretty hard to keep and are very vulnerable to fungal diseases

Potamotrygon motoro "marbled", the marbled motoro. Unlike their closely related cousin, the regular motoro wich is one of the largest rays that is commonly sold, they stay very small. There are some so called "mini marbles" that suposedly stay even smaller. A large female will be 16" disc length but most stay much smaller. These are probably the nicest of the smaller rays. They have a marbled orange and brown pattern. These guys are not very finicky at all. They are the 2nd most expensive one I listed above and you'll probably have to get one shipped because to my nolledge, there are no local suppliers. These guys arent extremely hard to keep and are a great choice for a first ray.

Potamotrygon scobina. Arguabely the smallest ray, large females only reach abput 13" in disc length. Males stay smaller. These guys are just about never found in the US and I honestly dont know much about them. If you find one for sale in the US, let me know :)

Potamotrygon hystrix. These guys are another great choice for a beginner ray. They eat like pigs and stay small. The only problem with these guys is that is extremely hard to find a true histrix. I know rich (richone) has a true hystrix that he got from another hobbyist. Many stores say they have "hystrix" for sale that turn out to be the peru hystrix. The peru hystrix doesnt stay as small and isnt nearly as pretty. True hystrix are never found in peru.

As for tank size, make sure to have a tank with a large footprint. Height doesnt really matter much because rays spend almost all of their time cruising on the bottom. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
 

rich_one

Members
Dan knows way more about rays than I do. But yes, I have a male true hystrix I got from a breeder in Maine. I expect him to max out at a 12" disc, and again... that's maximum. I often see that folks have males that seem to max around 9" to 10". They do not have unusually long tails either. When I first got mine, it ate only shrimp and NLS pellets. Now, it eats pellets full time, though I will drop a few pieces of shrimp in there from time to time as a treat. He is on the same feeding schedule as all of my other fish, one feeding every other day (though I do feed his tank somewhat heavily, to be sure he gets food... he shares a tank with a group of frontosas and a group of rainbows). He, too, is a slow grower. I currently have him in a 6 ft. 150 gallon tank. I've been told by many ray keepers on MFK that this size tank will suffice for life. Hope this helps, at least as far as my experience with a hystrix, anyway.

As Dan noted, they are not easy to find, but I believe the breeder I got mine from may be having a batch of pups coming soon, if I am not mistaken. Let me know if interested, and I can point you his way, and you can find out if he has any coming available soon.

Good luck!

-Rich
 

blkmjk

Members
My first response is DO IT!

check out MFK stickys pretty much sums up the questions you have.

I don't keep rays but I have wanted to for a while now.

Drew
 

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
I don't have anything to add, but want to say that this is becoming a great thread!
 

npbarca

Members
Great knowledge guys!

So from what im hearing, I would be able to keep a true Hystrix in a standard 180 for life?
 

jonclark96

Past CCA President
I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but the "minimum" tank size threads usually make me ask, "Why aren't folks looking for the OPTIMUM tank size instead of the MINIMUM?". I am just a guilty as the next hobbyist in wanting to keep all sorts of types of fish in as few a number of tanks as possible, but there has to be a point in which I draw the line as to what I can and can't keep. Could you keep a ray, or a dovii, or an umbee, or a red tail cat, or a pacu in a certain sized tank? Sure, there are all sorts of answers out there and probably some people who have kept large fish in small tanks. But is the smallest possible tank for a certain species the best thing to do? Not really my place to make that call, but I think a better question to ask is "What is the best fish for me to keep in the tank that I have?"
 

npbarca

Members
Yeah, that would be the right question to ask. Obviously, rays need large tanks, so I'm not thinking I can keep one in a 75. The reason I say minimum is that 1. I'm 16, so obviously budget is something to consider. Also, my basement stairs are set up in a very bad angle with a doorway, making getting large tanks into the basement a real problem.

Id love to get a 300 gallon, but I think if a true hystrix or other smaller stingray can live happily in anywhere between 180 and 230 gallons for life, then I'll go with the "smaller" tank.
 

rich_one

Members
From what I've learned of rays, if you can get a male hystrix, it will do fine in a 180 or larger for life. Mine will be in a 150, and I asked a LOT of questions... both publicly and privately (PMs) on MFK before making that purchase. You'll be fine... just ask lots of questions, and try to have the tank before you have the ray. Good luck!

-Rich
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
Yeah, that would be the right question to ask. Obviously, rays need large tanks, so I'm not thinking I can keep one in a 75. The reason I say minimum is that 1. I'm 16, so obviously budget is something to consider. Also, my basement stairs are set up in a very bad angle with a doorway, making getting large tanks into the basement a real problem.

Id love to get a 300 gallon, but I think if a true hystrix or other smaller stingray can live happily in anywhere between 180 and 230 gallons for life, then I'll go with the "smaller" tank.

I see what your saying. I'm barely 13 and the only reason I went with potamotrygon reticulata was budjet. That was before I was seriously breeding rare-ish fish. In my opinion you can keep a male marbled motoro in a 180 for most of its life and you can keep any of the other 3 I listed in a 180 for life.
 

Frank Cowherd

Global Moderators
Staff member
Have you seen the ray tank/pond at the National Zoo in the Amazonia area? If not, you should go and take a look. That is about the right size, but way too big for my home.

The rays there are all females. They do not want any more babies, they give live birth. Zoos are not allowed to sell animals on the open market, they can only trade with other zoos. We always took out the babies and raised them behind the scenes. I've not been there in a couple years, so maybe they are raising young again.

The pond there also had a ton of guppies, not added on purpose but came in with aquatic plants purchased for the pond. The rays eat a lot of guppies. They learned to herd the guppies up against the clear plastic viewing wall with their wings and then suck up a few of them.

The males were aggressive with females. Females often had bite marks when males were present.
 

JLW

CCA Members
One thing to keep in mind is that a tank with a ray will likely ONLY have a ray. They'll eat smaller fish, and larger fish have a habit of picking on them.
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
larger fish have a habit of picking on them.

This is unfortunately, very true. I had a giant gourami with both of my old rays (a henlei and a reticulata) and she was fine with the reticulated ray for over a year. Right when I added the henlei she changed. She started picking on the henlei and later ended up killing it and she ended up almost killing my reticulated ray which is now in a good, giant gourami free home :).
I've been told to keep geos and other cichlids like that because they dont pick on rays, my geos almost killed my male retic. I was told cory cats are fine, I later found the little cories slowly eating the rays tail. I was told oscars are probably the worst thing you can put with rays, all 3 of the rays I've kept and raised lived with a large wild caught oscar at some point in their life. I even kept 60 1" texas/ jack dempsey hybrid fry from my old pair and they did fine with the rays.
Some fish will want to eat the ray alive, but some dont mind chilling with them.
 

blkmjk

Members
One of the more interesting pairings of a ray and an I there fish is Jeff Rapps has a male ray in with a male umbee. Both get along fine. But reticulated rays are common in Columbia. I want to try it myself but I am afraid of loosing a 500$ ray to an aggressive umbee.

Drew
 

rich_one

Members
One of the more interesting pairings of a ray and an I there fish is Jeff Rapps has a male ray in with a male umbee. Both get along fine. But reticulated rays are common in Columbia. I want to try it myself but I am afraid of loosing a 500$ ray to an aggressive umbee.

Drew

This I would never dare do! LOL... wow.

It's only been a week, but so far, so good with my fronts and hystrix. Again, I only did this after asking questions about it on MFK, and getting unanimous support in both the African Cichlid forum AND the Stingray forum before moving forward. That gave me the confidence to try it. Prior to the fronts, I had angels in there with no problems whatsoever for several months with the ray... with the angels constantly spawning. I also have rainbows in the tank, again no problems. A couple of the rainbows are kind of small, and I have yet to see the ray attempt to prey on anything, or anyone else attempt to bother the ray. But I'll keep updating that as the weeks pass on here. But so far, so good.

-Rich
 

b considine

a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude
The current issue of Amazonas has a rebuttal article to the last issue about monster fish/tanks. In this rebuttal, the authors provide a formula for determining appropriate tank size.

This may help inform your decisionmaking.

Blaise
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
I haven't kept them but from what I've heard umbees are very different personalities than, say, red devils or other big guapotes.

And, of course, Jeff has dozens of other tanks where he could put his ray or umbee in event of issues :)

Matt

One of the more interesting pairings of a ray and an I there fish is Jeff Rapps has a male ray in with a male umbee. Both get along fine. But reticulated rays are common in Columbia. I want to try it myself but I am afraid of loosing a 500$ ray to an aggressive umbee.

Drew
 

blkmjk

Members
The current issue of Amazonas has a rebuttal article to the last issue about monster fish/tanks. In this rebuttal, the authors provide a formula for determining appropriate tank size.

This may help inform your decisionmaking.

Blaise

Link?

Drew
 

blkmjk

Members
I haven't kept them but from what I've heard umbees are very different personalities than, say, red devils or other big guapotes.

And, of course, Jeff has dozens of other tanks where he could put his ray or umbee in event of issues :)

Matt

Clear out a 180 I have some you could try! They would be fine for 5 years or more.

Drew
 
Top