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Insulating tanks

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
Hey guys
So the fish room is very cold, it rarely gets over 68 degrees and is normally cooler in the summer and in winter it gets considerabely colder so I have to really ramp up my heaters in the tanks. My live bearers and plecos dont mind the cooler temps too much but my cichlid pairs dont like it and when the heaters are on the highest setting the tanks are only about 74-75 degrees. I'd like to get it up to 78 because I want to end up keeping a variety of apistos and rams and other dwarf cichlids. I was thinking about styrophoame but I still want to be able to see through at least one viewing panel, preferabely 2 or 3 but as long as I can see my fish and their happy I really dont mind too much.
Thanks
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
The room is cold and the heaters I bought really arent really great quality. Im using 200 watt pen plax heaters on a few of the 10s and they get it up to 80 at most but with for example the 29s, I have 200 watt heaters and its never exceeds 75 degrees.
 

jonclark96

Past CCA President
A space heater in the room would be the most efficient way to do it. Otherwise, invest in higher quality heaters.
 

jonclark96

Past CCA President
You could try to better insulate the room, but I would think that is a larger project than your mom would let you take on. I don't think partially insulating the tanks would have much effect. Make sure you have good tops on the tank. That should help. You could also use your lighting to help add heat to the tank. In my 120, the combination of heat from pump motors and my light keeps the tank at a steady 76 degrees. I actually unplugged my heaters a few weeks ago because the water temps were too high.
 

Hawkman2000

Members
Get a sheet of half inch foam board and cut them to fit under the tanks. This will help keep some heat in the tanks. Not a whole lot, but it might help.
 

neut

Members
I've seen people insulate their tanks who said it helped, though I don't remember specifics and couldn't quantify it in engineering terms. I'd expect better heaters would help-- really, based on my own experience I'm a little surprised a 200 watt heater can't keep a 29 gal warmer than that. According to this calculator a 200 watt heater should keep a 29 gal tank close to 20 degrees warmer than ambient temperature.

My experience-- I once temporarily set up a 75 gal tank for discus in an open (screened) porch in Florida in the winter-- we were in the process of moving, staying in someone else's house while we looked for a place; I wasn't going to give up my discus and it was the only place for the tank. I had two heaters in the tank (250 watt I think, not sure since it was 20 years ago, so it's quite possible one or both were 300) We had a cold snap for about a week with below freezing temps at night and 40s during the day and the tank stayed over 80 through it all, that's without insulating the tank. Probably had either Acura heaters or the older style Marineland Stealth back then.

I currently have a 135 with a single 250 watt heater, room is generally 68-70-ish in the winter and it's no problem at all keeping the tank 78-80 degrees. Right now all my heaters are Fluval M. Just my own experience, but I'd be disappointed that a 200 watt heater can't keep a 29 gal tank 78 degrees in a 68 degree room.
 

Localzoo

Board of Directors
Get permission from your folks to close a few vents and maybe depending on layout hang a tarp up instead of insulating all the tanks but I would start with trying to turn the thermostats up at least to 75-78 tell them it's gonna save them money etc maybe even set it up so the thermostats is cooler when ppl are home and is warmer when you are at school or wrk (I know it's summer but you don't care if its warmer) its saves them money on the heating and cooling bill.... Then see how many vents are in the basement...how often are people down there? If not often tell them why cool a part of the house that's not used.....see if that wrks if the heaters are forever playing catch up they will eventually fail.
I know I'm going to catch hell for this but a few degree (over 3degrees then I would say its harmful) change through out the day should not harm your fish as long as its consistent and gradual...example night time outdoors water temps everywhere drops and same at my house lights are off ac is a little higher...in the afternoon it's the opposite temps up lights on etc...
Keep us posted


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
Thanks guys I think its mainly that the heaters arn't very good quality and since the heating/cooling unit for the basement is the same for the downstairs my mom said I cant heat it up too high because it would heat up the down stairs aswell so my parents didnt allow it. Since the basement is normally a little bit cooler anyway and with the air conditioning on in the middle floor wich also means its on in the basement plus the cheap heaters is why all the tanks are colder than they should be. So I'll just upgrade the heaters and put styro on the sides and hope for the best.
 

DiscusnAfricans

Past President
I have a similar situation with my tanks being in the basement. I'm heating the room using a dehumidifier, but I don't want to run it constantly. Close the basement vents while the AC is running, no sense in cooling it if its already colder than the rest of the house. Open them back up in the fall when you switch to heat. Put the tanks that need higher temps on the upper shelves of the racks since heat rises.

Quality heaters are worth investing in for several reasons if you need to use them, but you also have to consider the electric consumption. I don't heat my big tanks; the fish may not spawn as readily or grow as fast, but nobody seems to hate temps around 70, including mbuna and central americans. You could also consider removing the heaters after a spawn until they appear ready to spawn again, then add the heater to help induce.

Just ideas to help. I doubt you're paying the electric bill, but you'll pay more attention to this stuff when you do, or when your parents say the bill is getting too high.
 

AquaStudent

Members
I don't remember seeing any photos or all around video of your fish room Dan. Is it a separate room in your basement? Closing the vents and a space heater (of course your mother won't allow that though) would help out in that case. I don't know how effective vent closing would be if it's a large room. You'll want to have some ventilation down there.

When I was in my basement room at my parents for the summer last year I didn't have a top on my 29g and the room turned into a sauna. I opened up the vents and that helped out. That room only had one vent so having it closed completely changed the airflow of the room.

Buying a bunch of heaters isn't a very good solution because it's expensive initially and will continue to be expensive. I'm not sure how much insulating the tanks would do because you'll still have at least one very large side exposed to allow for heat to transfer.

In the future if you could go with acrylic instead of glass that may be in your benefit because acrylic is more insulating than glass.
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
There are a few videos on my youtube channel and I posted pics of it a little while ago.
Thanks for the suggestions
 

neut

Members
Checked out your recent fish room video, sounds/looks like you have a number of tanks, including a 120. All in the same room? Do (or can) you keep the door closed to the room? I"m thinking it may not take anything too drastic to fix this...

If you've ever been at a lfs or breeder or other fish room with no air conditioning, you know how they're typically warm and humid or how some of them have to have a fan blowing through the room to keep it from getting too hot. Also, in my house when I have a small/medium sized room with a big tank or several tanks, closing the door can keep the room several degrees warmer than the rest of the house in the winter. In other words, if you have enough gals going in a room, just closing off air conditioning vents and keeping the door closed (if it's possible and you're not doing this already) should make a difference in ambient temperature. Also, if there's a way to let sun in the room or directly into a tank, it gives you some passive solar heat-- and there's actually some benefit to allowing solar UV into a tank, degree of benefit depends on exposure.

Also, no necessity to replace all your heaters. It can be done just for the tanks and fish that need it most, and not even all of those would need a new heater-- for this reason: Whenever you upgrade a heater in one tank you now have an extra or supplementary heater for another tank if it needs it. In other words, assuming you're replacing a working heater simply because it's not enough for a particular tank, each new heater you buy gives you second heater (the used one) that can supplement another tank. So, assuming the old heater is still in good working order, but just not enough for the tank, one heater gives you two, two gives you four, etc.

The other thing I'd do is figure out which tank/fish really needs warmer temps and which don't. Wimpiest heaters can go in tanks that don't need to be warmed that much and better heaters in tanks that need to be warmer. Depending on your fish, some can be just fine at cooler temps than most people think.

Good example is angelfish. Lot of people think: they come from the Amazon, so they need temps at 80 or in the 80s. But healthy (scalare) adults will do just fine at 72-74 ime, although they like it warmer to spawn. Or take discus. Everyone thinks they have to have constant temps in the 80s, but in the wild many experience temps in the 70s, some under 75. (Link) (not saying you should keep discus at 74 degrees, just that wild discus tolerate much lower temps than most people realize).

Part of the trade-off with temperature is at warmer temps within their range fish tend to grow faster and spawn more, at lower temps they tend to grow a little slower and live longer. Also, lower temp and slower metabolism means less food needed, cleaner tank. Immune system is better at warmer temps for some fish, others are stressed by warmer temps. So there's not always a single right way for every tank, but you don't always have to go with common 'wisdom' for what temps some fish need.
 

neut

Members
An afterthought while I'm on the subject... The phobia some have of temps varying in a tank is overblown for a lot of fish. Depends on the tank and fish, but a larger and unheated tank in a room that may vary by 10-15 degrees or more from day to night may only vary water temperature by a couple of degrees or so (small tank will change water temp faster). Speaking from experience, a lot of fish are just fine with this, including a lake fish like Cyphotilapia that people imagine never see temperature changes in such a large lake that (not true, they do see temperature changes in the lake, another example of a common belief not based on fact) or even a tropical fish like angelfish. No, you don't want your tank getting too cold or temps bouncing up and down ten degrees every day, but most of us who have turned off a heater for the summer or put fish out in a pond for the summer know that for most fish relatively small day/night temperature fluctuations aren't really the scourge some people make them out to be.
 

festaedan

potamotrygon fan
Thanks
All of the tanks are in my basement except the 120 is in the living room and I have a 55 in my room.
I have lots of wild type live bearers in the fish room, the tanks with those have the wimpiest heaters since they like the cooler water and I've moved the better heaters to the bigger tanks with fish that prefer warmer water. Its working out pretty well as of now. i still want to upgrade the heaters later on but for now all the fish are happy
 
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