• You liked BFD7 now you should join this forum and of course become a club member to see what CCA is all about.
  • Thank you to everyone who registered and showed up for the BIG Fish Deal #7.

Mbuna Dreams

C

Chuck & Veronica

Guest
Veronica and I enjoy all kinds of fish, but she's particularly drawn to colorfish and enjoys the look of a crowded tank. So it seems natural that we would begin thinking at some point about starting a tank with African Cichlids, particularly Mbuna where it seems to be a strong recommendation to stock heavily.

We're both fairly new to Cichlids, so I'll be relying on the advice of others when we start our Mbuna tank (which will be a mininum of 55 gallons, and preferably 75 gallons). One source of expert advice that I'm looking at is contained in the March 2006 issue of Practical Fishkeeping magazine: "How to Keep Mbuna the Right Way," by Jeremy Gay.

In the article, the author recommends stocking certain species in a specific order (always juveniles and in a ratio of one male to two females). Here's his recommendation:

Labidochromis caeruleus "yellow" (Yellow Labs)
Pseudotropheus acei
Metriaclima estherae (Red Zebra)
Metriaclima callainos (Cobalt Zebra)

This collection shoud make up about 20, he says. These fish are comparatively mild-mannered (for Mbuna Cichlids, that is). After that, he says we can spice up the tank a bit with some species that are a bit more testy:

Melanchromis spp.
Labeotropheus spp.
Metriaclima lombardoi
Pseudotropheus socolofi
Cynotilapia spp.
Pseudotropheus elongatus

So what do you think? Any help from experienced Mbuna keepers would be greatly appreciated!

Chuck
 

Pat Kelly

CCA Member
Staff member
I have only kept a few. I love Yellow labs and when it come to Pseudotropheus, I am in to Demasoni. Small and colorful. Bright blue with black stripes. With attitude. Only thing is you can not tell the males from the females when young.
 

tgrogan

Members
The only issue I would take is putting all those Metriaclima species together. The Estherae males will be blue when mature. The Callianos will all be blue. There is a distinct possibility that the two will interbreed given the similar color and shape. This is generally frowned upon and I suspect that alot of fishkeepers keep them apart just so that they aren't scorned by the populace.

As a general rule, most species of a genus, in this case Metriaclima, will interbreed due to similarities in body shape and coloration. It is suspected that even different color morphs of the same fish result from a preferred pattern recognized by the female. The color morphs are generally geographic, so the theory is that what looks good in one place doesn't somewhere else. The ideal patterned/colored males are accepted by the females and the others just die off without reproducing.

In the tank however, things change. The water conditions are not the same, the light spectrum is not the same, and often there is only one or two males to choose from so they take what they can get....Kinda like in humans :lol:

I guess my point is that you should probably pick on of the Metriaclimas and leave the rest alone, at least in the same tank. But I am relatively new to the hobby as well.
 
C

Chuck & Veronica

Guest
Thanks for your replies! Tgrogan, thanks especially, about the warning of the possibility that different Metriaclima may interbreed. I wouldn't want that. Also about there being too much blue. I'd like to get a lot of different colors.

I'll keep working on the list and see how I can revise it.

Chuck
 

Steve

Members
CaV,

I'd go with the 75-gal. as a minimum: you will need the footprint area for rock formations. (Remember: out of sight = might not be killed) If you want to stay at 4' in length, the 120-gal. is really nice. I think "go as big as you can" is pretty close to the mbuna-rearing Prime Directive. (Or, for the benefit of Pat, "size does matter.")

The Labs, in my experience, invariably lose out in competitions with bigger, faster and more active mbuna. (For one thing, they don't have the same strong mouth of mbuna.) I've got groups of P. polits, M. johanni (which can be pure evil, like all the Mels), P. tridentigers and L. car . . . sigh, I can never remember how to spell it . . . Yellow Labs all together (along with a few assorted "others"). All four have bred, but none of the Labs have grown up in the tank (the other three have), and the adults are generally at the bottom of the pecking order.

Remember, too, that the males of each species are going to harass (and kill) each other. Two males is, basically, a "glass-cage death match."

Terry is spot on about cross-breeding (and why, by extension, cross-breeding in the aquarium often leads to drab-looking fish).

Does anyone remember when (like 10 years ago) when it was taken for granted that there were four basic color morphs for the "zebra": orange, blue, blue-striped, and blotched (OB)? (How many of you have had orange zebras produce other color variants?)

And even though no one asked me, I've got to say that I have never seen a P. acei that I thought was attractive. Has anyone? (Alcohol cannot be involved.)

Cheers,
Steve
 

tgrogan

Members
Originally posted by Steve@Apr 6 2006, 03:25 PM
And even though no one asked me, I've got to say that I have never seen a P. acei that I thought was attractive.  Has anyone?  (Alcohol cannot be involved.)
Now wait just a darn minute...I happen to love the little blue guys with their cute little yellow fins....uhhh...sorry, I forgot I was a guy. :unsure:

I just got some, and though I have to agree that I've never seen any...in the pet store...that looked nice, mine actually look pretty good to me...honey get me another beer would ya'...where was I, oh yeah, once they got in my tank they looked pretty good. Of course that may be due to the NLS I've been feeding since the March meeting...looking forward to winning that tank in May ;)

BTW Steve, I got some P. Polits. in a new-to-me 125g tank. And my Cobalt Blue's finally spawned about 4 days ago. wahoo.

Next time you come out you can take a look at my Acei's.

Terry G.
 

Steve

Members
Snort, chuckle.

Well, sure, Terry, if you fill the tank up with beer, even *those* fish might look attractive . . . that is, until you see your male polits start to color up and glow. (Bobby, if you're looking for something to photograph, a tank of these babys will give both the challenge and the pictures that you want.)

I will be curious, though, if you find yours as absolutely, um, "piggy" when it comes to food as mine are. They should have been called Pseudotropheus hooverae. It's actually a problem in my group grow-out tanks, because the polits just seem to snag more food than any other species--so much that they come to resemble lil' brown bowling balls . . . and you know *that* can't be good!

Cheers,
Steve
 

tgrogan

Members
I'm reminded of a joke from along time ago...

Why won't New York City ever be attacked by a missle?

It would be stripped before it hit the ground! :lol:

That's about the way it is at feeding time in the tank now. The polits and aceis eat the sinking pellets before they ever hit the sand! The aceis are definitely starting to pudge already.

I have two male polits which have colored already. They have each staked out an area of the tank for themselves. There is also an obvious hierarchy. One got punked and doesn't display the 'crown' as I call it, above the eyes. The other is very pretty (my opinion).

BTW, my female Red Empress is holding again. I watched the spawning on Saturday! Hopefully these won't need a tumbler. I only have 2 surviving fry from her first clutch, out of about 25 originals.
 
"And even though no one asked me, I've got to say that I have never seen a P. acei that I thought was attractive. Has anyone? (Alcohol cannot be involved.)
"


I am trying to selectively breed my Acei for a much lighter purple, and it is going nicely.

My recomendation would be to skip the zebras all together. A very nice combo mught be the Lab, Acei, and some Cobalt Blues. 6-8 each of these introduced as Juvies would grow into a wonderful tank that should be beautiful, but fairly problem free for your first "cichlid" tank.
 
C

Chuck & Veronica

Guest
I am trying to selectively breed my Acei for a much lighter purple, and it is going nicely.

My recomendation would be to skip the zebras all together. A very nice combo mught be the Lab, Acei, and some Cobalt Blues. 6-8 each of these introduced as Juvies would grow into a wonderful tank that should be beautiful, but fairly problem free for your first "cichlid" tank.
[/b]
Thanks! I'm going to go with your recommendation. I don't want to risk having some of the fish cross-breeding.

What kind of setup do you have to be breeding Acei?

Thanks for your help! :D

Chuck
 
here a list i got from another forum

for 55g
Lake Malawi Haplochromine Aquarium
Select up to 3 groups (Only 1 male for each group is preferred. 9 fish total for the tank):
• Any Copadichromis species (except for larger species i.e. borleyi, jacksoni, etc.)
• Any Promotelas species (except for larger species, i.e. taeniolatus, spilontus, sp. "Mbenji Thick Lip", etc.)
• Any Aulonocara species (no jacobfriebergi)
• Any Placidichromis species (except for milomo)
• Otopharynx lithobates
• Any Nyassachromis species




Smaller, Less Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium
Select any 3 species (max 12 fishes):
• Metriaclima estherae
• Pseudotropheus saulosi
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
• Labidochromis sp. "Hongi"
• Labidochromis caeruleus
• Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
• Labidochromis chisimulae
• Iodotropheus sprengerae
• Cynotilapia afra
Do not mix any Labidochromis species.




Larger, More Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium
Select any 2 groups (max 10 fishes):
• Labeotropheus trewavasae
• Melanochromis johanni
• Tropheops tropheops
• Pseudotropheus elongatus
• Metriaclima pyrsonotos


For 75G

Blue and Yellow Mbuna Setup:
Select only 1 from A or B and 1 from C:

Group A: Blue:
• Pseudo. elongatus "Likoma Is." - 7
• Metriaclima callainos - 10

Group B: Blue & Yellow Dimorphism:
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Msobo" - 7
• Pseudotropheus saulosi - 12
• Melanochromis johanni - 8

Group C: Yellow:
• Labidochromis caeruleus - 10


Purple and Yellow Mbuna Setup:
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - 8 adults
• Labidochromis caeruleus - 10 adults
-OR-
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - 14 juveniles
• Labidochromis caeruleus - 16 juveniles
* See note.


• Pseudotropheus sp. "Elongatus Chailosi" - 2:4
• Metriaclima estherae - 6
• Metriaclima greshakei - 4
• Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" - 5
• Synodontis multipunctatus - 3-6


Select 4 species (Max 5 of each):
• Pseudotropheus polit
• Pseudotropheus saulosi
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Msobo"
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
• Cynotilapia axelrodi
• Labidochromis caeruleus
• Labidochromis sp. "Hongi"
• Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"
• Labidochromis chisimulae
• Iodotropheus sprengerae
• Cynotilapia afra
Do not mix any two species of Labidochromis, the
Pseudotropheus saulosi with the Pseudotropheus
deep or any two Cynotilapia species.


• Labidochromis caeruleus - 3
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" - 3
• Pseudotropheus sp. "Elongatus Chewere"- 3
• Pseudotropheus socolofi - 3
• Labeotropheus fulleborni - 1:2
• Pseudotropheus saulosi - 1:2
• Synodontis multipunctatus - 6




Larger, More Aggressive Mbuna Setup
Select 1 species from 4 of the various groups below (Max 4 of each) , for a max total of 4 groups, and 16 fish. :

Group A:
• Labeotropheus trewavasae

Group B:
• Melanochromis johanni
• Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos
• Melanochromis auratus

Group C:
• Metriaclima callainos
• Metriaclima estherae
• Metriaclima lombardoi

Group D:
• Labidochromis species

Group E:
• Tropheops tropheops

Group F:
• Pseudotropheus elongatus types
• Pseudotropheus flavus

Group G:
• Cynotilapia afra
 
Top