water change pump

I want to buy a submersible pump to make water changes go quicker. I've never used a submersible pump before, so I'm not sure what to look for. I know the general theory is buy the biggest you can afford, but I'm trying to stay budget friendly, and not buy something that is overkill.

Tanks will likely be no higher than 6 feet off the ground, with some almost on the floor. My utility sink is in the room, but I have larger tanks outside of the room, max distance probably 40 feet.

I'd also like something energy efficient, another reason for not wanting to go too big. What specs or brands would you recommend? I'm considering the Quiet One 1200 pump from Kens fish:

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/water-pumps/quiet-one-1200-water-pump.html

Specs: 6.1 feet of head, 25.5 watts, 0.4 amps, 0.5 inch inlet and outlet. Would I need something with a larger intake?

I have an EcoPlus and a Mag pump that I use for water changes. The EcoPlus was affordable (somewhere in the $65 range) that I picked up from Kens. I have a Mag 7 that I also use. The mag is definitely a better pump, and works much more efficiently. The only reason I don't use it exclusively is because I have a garden hose that I use to pump out my down stairs tanks and the EcoPlus hooks up to the garden hose easier. If I had to do it again, I probably would have invested in a mag pump large enough to use the garden hose.

My recommendation would be to get a pump you can hook up to a garden hose instead of a smaller diameter hose.

One other warning - be aware once you finally get one. Although the pumps are made to be mobile, I had issues with my old pump with the electrical cord from moving it in and out of tanks. The cord eventually separated from the motor housing and shorted out the motor.

I use two similar pumps, a SEN 300 (also from Ken's) and an Aqueon 1700 submersible. They work fine. In some cases, I'm pumping from tanks just off the floor into a utility sink, like you. In those cases, they're not particularly fast, but they definitely speed up the process. (I actually pump them into a bucket in the sink, and then pump from the bucket up to my yard, but that's another discussion.)

Thanks Jon and Matt, very practical advice. Brought up some stuff I hadn't thought about.

The Quiet One pump states it can be used for wet or dry applications. Could I leave the pump in the sink and move the hose from tank to tank? That would alleviate the problem of moving the pump, and possibly moving the power cord between outlets.

Jon, do you recommend the garden hose for ease of use, or for practical applications? The basement entrance is too far to be worth pumping outside, and the window is near the ceiling, so I think that would be impractical too.

Matt, what are the specs on the pump you use? Flow rate and head height seem to be the key factors, just curious how high I should go. Realized I can look up the specs, but curious what numbers I should be going for.

I use the garden hose because it is cost effective from a dollars/foot at a certain diameter. Plastic tubing works well also, but it is way more expensive. The 50 foot hose that I use was less than $20 and already has the fittings attached. I bought a quick connect fitting for hoses and made a pig tail that is permanently connected to my pump to make things easy. I use smaller diameter hose that is fitted to the Mag pump, and although it is effective, it is cumbersome to use in multiple tanks. I ended up getting a rubbermaid bin that I siphon into and pump from the bin.

jonclark96 said:

I use the garden hose because it is cost effective from a dollars/foot at a certain diameter. Plastic tubing works well also, but it is way more expensive. The 50 foot hose that I use was less than $20 and already has the fittings attached. I bought a quick connect fitting for hoses and made a pig tail that is permanently connected to my pump to make things easy. I use smaller diameter hose that is fitted to the Mag pump, and although it is effective, it is cumbersome to use in multiple tanks. I ended up getting a rubbermaid bin that I siphon into and pump from the bin.

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Makes sense, hadn't priced out tubing to know. Its good to know this stuff before jumping in to something I'm naïve about. Have to think about options and figure out what will work best for the room and efficiency. Thanks.

DiscusnAfricans said:

The Quiet One pump states it can be used for wet or dry applications. Could I leave the pump in the sink and move the hose from tank to tank? That would alleviate the problem of moving the pump, and possibly moving the power cord between outlets.

____________

Matt, what are the specs on the pump you use? Flow rate and head height seem to be the key factors, just curious how high I should go. Realized I can look up the specs, but curious what numbers I should be going for.

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I have not had good results with the pump in the sink, if I am pumping out of a tank that is lower than the sink. Basically, it's hard to prime the pump. So the pump has to go in the tank.

The specs for the pumps I'm using are similar to yours -- I think the Aqueon is slightly faster (400 gph), with a 6 foot head. Since you're not pumping very far uphill, head might be less important for you.

You can sometimes find pump bargains on eBay, but it can be hit or miss. Lots of pumps from China, which I choose to avoid.

I use a Mag 7on my 120/150/125/75..works well.

I went the really cheap route for a submersible pump and found a small one at Harbor Freight Tools and it does a great job for me...

http://www.harborfreight.com/200-gph-miniature-submersible-fountain-pump-68372.html

Arlene

Matt hit the nail on the head when it comes to not placing the pump in the tank. I believe that most of the smaller pumps like this actually push the water out of the output versus pulling the water into the input (if that makes any sense). You'd have to prime the pump and get a siphon started for it to work. I tried this and it was a PITA. Trying to suck water out of a tank through a pump and 20 feet of hose isn't that easy to do.

Tony tried to show me some plumbing trick to make it easy, but I think it involved building something complicated out of PVC, so I just stuck with the system I have.

I'll refrain from making jokes about sucking water through 20 feet of hose

I keep my bottom row of tanks on my racks about 16-18" off of the ground (i.e. one cement block + 2x4 + styro) off the ground.

Both because it's quick and good exercise, I actually use a large (1") siphon and couple of buckets to do water changes (one siphoning while I'm dumping one in the utility sink) on the bottom racks.

Matt

jonclark96 said:

Matt hit the nail on the head when it comes to not placing the pump in the tank. I believe that most of the smaller pumps like this actually push the water out of the output versus pulling the water into the input (if that makes any sense). You'd have to prime the pump and get a siphon started for it to work. I tried this and it was a PITA. Trying to suck water out of a tank through a pump and 20 feet of hose isn't that easy to do.

Tony tried to show me some plumbing trick to make it easy, but I think it involved building something complicated out of PVC, so I just stuck with the system I have.

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Thanks guys, definitely good info. Jon, I understand about the push/pull issue, makes sense on why in tank pumping is the preferred method. I don't think I'm trying to use siphons or buckets, so I'll just have to find a way to utilize the pump in the tank unless I can find one that's self priming. Sounds like I won't need too large of a pump in terms of head height, just something with decent flow and outlet size. I'll do some more digging around and see what I can find, but this helps a lot.

You could put the pump on the floor, outside the tank, and attach tubing to the pump input (assuming it's a pump that has the right kind of connections) that includes a gravel vac-type attachment, and put that tubing in the tank. That should be relatively easy to prim, since the pump would be below the tank.

I haven't done this, mind you, but I've thought about it.

mchambers said:

You could put the pump on the floor, outside the tank, and attach tubing to the pump input (assuming it's a pump that has the right kind of connections) that includes a gravel vac-type attachment, and put that tubing in the tank. That should be relatively easy to prim, since the pump would be below the tank.

I haven't done this, mind you, but I've thought about it.

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Great idea!

I use a 1800 gallon per hour Mag pump with garden hose attached. This come with a plastic screen that I can use even in fry tanks. I put the pump and screen in the tank, turn it on and pump to the drain.

If I want to syphon off mulm or want to clean out the gravel, I siphon using a Python siphon into a five gallon bucket. In the bucket is the mag pump. Any gravel that gets sucked up goes to the bottom of the bucket and does not get into the pump. Fish can be retrieved from the bucket if they get sucked up, but that does not happen often.

I have gotten 1800 gph Mag drive pumps for as little as 100 to 120 dollars. Just have to keep looking for bargains. That pet place and via Amazon.com you can get one today for just under $150. These make for quick water changes.

mchambers said:

You could put the pump on the floor, outside the tank, and attach tubing to the pump input (assuming it's a pump that has the right kind of connections) that includes a gravel vac-type attachment, and put that tubing in the tank. That should be relatively easy to prim, since the pump would be below the tank.

I haven't done this, mind you, but I've thought about it.

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Might have to try this, sounds like it could be a good intermediate.

Frank Cowherd said:

I use a 1800 gallon per hour Mag pump with garden hose attached. This come with a plastic screen that I can use even in fry tanks. I put the pump and screen in the tank, turn it on and pump to the drain.

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Is that overkill for smaller tanks? I was originally considering something in the 400-600gph, but I'm sure the larger pump would be great for the bigger tanks.

I use a pond pump (Pondmaster brand somewhere in the 900 to 1200 GPH range...can't remember right now) attached to a garden hose. The pond pump came with a plastic guard that fits over the intake to prevent large-to-fairly-small stuff (like fish and wads of java moss) from being sucked in (small fry would still get sucked in). I have a convenient showerhead that I can attach the other end (with an adapter and quick connect hose fitting) to if I want tap water, otherwise, I have another pond pump that goes on the other end to pump water from my DI storage back to the tank. Another thing to consider is that I've *heard* stories about antimicrobial compounds being added to some garden hoses. So just because I'm a spaz, I got hoses rated for potable water. You can get them in any Big Box Hardware store in the garden center, labeled for RV use and they're usually white in color.

I'd also recommend a hose shutoff valve between your pump and the hose for when you need to turn off the flow quick and can't get to the sink or plug fast enough. It's also good on the refill for going between tanks quickly without having to fold and pinch the hose to shut off the flow.

I'm lazy so I leave my big pond pump attached to the end of the hose and don't even take it off for the refill. I used to use hose quick-connect fittings so that I could snap it on and off but I've yet to resolve two issues with them: 1. they eventually get leaky when they're flexed too much 2. they narrow the bore of the hose, so you really only get as much flow as can fit through the narrowed quick connect fittings. This is also a problem with the shutoff valve, but I found one that's a "wide bore" that's doing pretty well: http://www.dramm.com/html/main.isx?sitesec=1.1.2.0 third item down, the Dramm Heavy Duty Plastic Shut-Off Valve. I sometimes find them in the nicer garden centers around. The Big Box Store hose shutoff valves all fail after about a year (trust me, I've gone through about a dozen of them between the fishroom and the garden outside...I've tried all of the Big Box Store varieties)....they stop opening and closing (I think a groove gets worn in the nylon ball inside). So go that route for a quick, cheap short term solution but keep an eye out for a nicer one down the road.

So here's how I do my waterchanges:

To drain tanks: put the plastic guard on the pump which is already attached to the hose. Drop pump in tank, run the hose to wherever the waste is going. Plug pump in. Make sure shutoff valve is open. When done, move to next tank or unplug when finished. For top tanks, I'll turn the pump on to start the flow, then turn the pump off and let gravity do the rest (using the shutoff valve to move between tanks without losing the siphon).

To refill: remove the plastic guard if necessary (sometimes it gets in the way) or leave it on....doesn't matter. Leave the pump attached to the hose but unplugged and shutoff valve open. Take the other end of the hose and plug it into the water source (quick connect fitting to the shower or pump for the DI reservoir). Refill as needed, using the shutoff valve to stop the water flow between tanks.

I used to use two hoses....one for fill and the other for drain, but I found that it just didn't fit into the flow of how I do things. So, a few other things I had to do to make it work:

I actually need two potable water hoses to reach the back door if I want to use the waste water on the outside plants. No biggie, just hook them together, but know that the longer the hose, the more pump head height rating you'll need to push the water through all of that hose.

To fit the pump for my DI reservoir on I had to get an adapter at the Big Box Hardware store to make the hose ends match up (I think I had to get a M to M adapter).

I like pond pumps that are threaded for a garden hose....lots of adapters at the Big Box Hardware stores for garden hose-to-whatever-you-want so it opens up a lot of options, IMO.

I also use a multi-output hose shutoff valve on the showerhead that I use for refilling my tanks, that way I can open and shut the one I'm using for refill while leaving the one for my DI refill open.

DiscusnAfricans said:

Is that overkill for smaller tanks?

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I don't think so....you'll just be able to drain them quickly. I'd go with whatever's going to get the job done on your biggest tank. it'll just be a bonus for the smaller ones.

One thing to consider, though, is that with the plastic guard on the front of my pump (and sounds like Frank's got something similar) it gets a bit tight in a 10 gallon tank....but I make it work anyhow because I'm not getting a special pump for the small tanks.

Thanks Christine, love the details and practical examples, etc. I'm glad that I didn't just buy a pump and try to make it work, there are a lot of variables to consider. My hope was to have a pump to drain tanks, while refilling already drained tanks with the python so that I'm not taking extra time to do it separately. I don't think I'll be messing with anything that requires RO/DI water for a while, I just use straight tap on all of my tanks. The shutoff valve is a great idea when draining/filling multiple tanks, I'll have to figure out how to work that for draining, the python has one for filling. I wonder if I could find a pump fitting that would allow the python hose to be attached, then I'd already have a built in shutoff valve, and I do have multiple hoses/fittings (it would save money on needing to buy a separate line). I guess the first step would be determining the diameter of the python fitting and thread size. So many things to consider...

Multitasking

DiscusnAfricans said:

My hope was to have a pump to drain tanks, while refilling already drained tanks with the python so that I'm not taking extra time to do it separately.

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I do this, but just remember to keep on eye on both and not get distracted, unless you like having aquarium water all over your floor!